Psyral Infection said

Noah Fence said
The "media" haven't even talked about Qanon. Like at all, as far as I know. 

I've seen the memes and had to unfollow people on social apps because they went full fox news with the Qanon stuff. 

Also it's important to note that "it's not about republicans or democrats" is a clear lie. The conspiracy theory is spreading in right wing circles and specifically targets mainstream Democratic people and institutions. It is carry over from the same lies that led to a Republican going into a pizza place and shooting people. There is also documented evidence which shows that the best way to keep people in line with an authoritarian leader like trump is to create fears of something big and looming. It's also a great way to make people vote Republican. It's manipulation through misinformation which is a tool trump team and the ultra right are experts in.

Notice how there are absolutely no specifics? Notice how it specifically ties Trump to the battle against this impending threat? Notice the alarming language? The way it literally says the information (which is not given) will seem unbelievable but to believe it anyway? Why? To scare you.

And it's working. Look up the qanon hashtag on any social media platform and you'll see numerous posts that are tagged MAGA and TRUMP.

Some specifically talk about how Hillary and Podesta are involved in the "deep state" threat.

It's ridiculous paranoia and it makes absolute sense that you and your super genius wife would be into it. It hits all of your important markers.  

Yes. That is exactly what I was saying. That info is NOT from Q. That is from people posting about Q. Q is the one that said it is not about Republicans vs Democrats. It is the right-wing tin-foil hat wearing people who want it to be against democrats.

I will say that the majority of the Q-folks are close minded diehard "Trump-icans" (I probably fall into this category to some extent, as people have pointed out here) but I know from personal experience with some of them, they are not all. Quite a few Bernie supporters, more than I would have expected. A few self-proclaimed Democrats too, though not many. The central message is about corrpution and while the right-wing side of Q followers want to intentionally ignore it, Q has called out many Republicans. Politics, as I am sure many on here will agree, breed corruption. Doesn't matter the party affiliations, power always has an open door to corruption. Some politicians choose to go through that door, some choose to try to close it. Some probably, in a misguided sense, think they have to use corruption to "fight fire with fire". As Q says, "All who play are fair game. No one gets a free pass" and not all those targeted by Q are politicians. Many are corporate execs.

The media that has reported on Q has not been cable news but a quick google shows the many news sources that explain the "Q conspiracy" from a point of view of someone who has no clue how to correctly navigate and filter through the Chans. Most attribute it all to 4Chan (1/2 chan) but the main channel is really on 8Chan. They incorrectly report that the followers are vile racists but if you looks at the UIDs of the "racists" you will see an interesting trend. A person will reply to a racist post and attack the "racist", giving very valid points against racism, then later spew the exact same type of racism only to be replied to by the original poster attacking the other poster's "racist" stance. They are usually in teams of 4 to 5 UIDs and all reply and attack each other, switching stances back and forth. The technique is called "Coordinated Sliding" and is one of many techniques used on Chans. Some say they are just trolls who like to disrupt. Some say they are paid shills who want to provide "proof" to the media of the vile nature of the Chans. Others say they are there to "scare away the normies." I don't know for certain which is more true. I think there are aspects of all those. It is not a new phenomenon. This is how Chans, and Reddits to a lesser extent, have been for years. I have no issue with it since I have grown acustomed to spotting these people and I quickly filter them out of all future posts that I read, especially when I am "Q-ing".

There is no q. It's a marketing ploy.

I haven't seen the news coverage you're talking about.

...

So ... Looks like I have become guilty of the "Slide" here in this topic. I took it farther than it needed to go in an art discussion. I tend to get long winded sometimes.  Back to the topic at hand ...

@noah-fence , You seem to be the most "artistic" from an academic point of view so this is directed at you mostly but anyone who has input on this is welcome to chime in. My daughter is into art. It is her main focus. What direction, academically, would you suggest she explores to round out her education and experience in the arts? While she may not go down the collegiate route (that is completely up to her), she can still explore those avenues herself in her own way. I realise the question is probably dependent on her type of art so it may be easier to just say what avenues you have explored, both academically and personally.  

How old is she?

First she should figure out if she wants to be a designer, an illustrator, or an artist.

The differences:

• Design is a commercial function used to sell products. It's focus is clarity, and a designers best asset is having an intuitive sense for brand unification. 
• Illustrators are people who draw things for other people (usually), in a narrative form (typically), with a consistent style. Comics/ manga, cartoons/anime, children's books, etc. Their focus is readability and their best asset is consistency.
• Artists are conceptual framers who create experiences in any medium. She can draw, she can paint, she can glue spaghetti into a pile. Whatever. An artist's focus is on experience and their best asset is research.

If she wants to be a designer she needs to go to a design school. Otis is supposed to be fantastic. They churn out professionals who make some of the most recognizable design solutions in the world. Other than that I have no real information if she wants to design.

If she wants to illustrate, get her to draw as often as possible. Plenty of YouTube channels will teach kids how to copy anime styles and that's a great place to start if she's interested in that form but she needs to learn anatomy and gesture too. She can't choose anime because it's easy or she'll get left behind by people who understand the mechanisms that are at play under the anime and develop her own frame of references. Stuff that is unique to her.

If she wants to be an artist, visit galleries, ask her why she thinks people made the choices they made. I would recommend she make as much work as possible in her chosen field. If she likes to draw, draw everything. If she likes to take photos, photograph everything she sees. Just get used to the process of starting, ending, starting again.

Get her books on Marcel Duchamp who is easily the most important artist in our current phase of creative thought because he helped us move from retinal art to conceptual art.

And begin asking her about the choices she makes in art. Why did she draw the horse that way or why is the shadow in this photograph as dark as it is? Not technical reasons but creative reasons. Art is about choices and getting good at explaining her choices post hoc is a good way to get her to start building her own visual language. Encourage her interests outside of art. They'll help inform her practice.  

She should show her art as much as possible but expect people not to get it. The question of age is really important here. If she's less than a teenager, ignore everything I've said and just let her make art. Jr high and elementary school aged kids aren't going to be in a space where conceptual frameworks are appreciated, unfortunately. High school stuff might be different. Most student contests or shows want refined aesthetic works. She can pursue those but they are ultimately meaningless as an artist (illustrators and designers mileage may vary). 

If she wants to go to art school she should practice making sketchbooks.

A sketchbook is not a book to doodle in. Its basically her research notes. You can get her two books if she wants one to draw her favorite Stephen Universe character in over and over but she needs one to start keeping track of her research.

Her sketchbook should include drawing exercises where she tries to figure out anatomy, composition, shading, coloring, (if she paints color mixing and brushwork), and various experiments she wants to try. The impulse people have is to try to make the sketchbook for submitting -perfect-. Tell her to fight that instinct. She needs to show them how she solves problems, aesthetic and conceptual, and that she's okay with failing. She has to take risks even if they don't work out and then figure out how to make them work. Follow through with ideas.

She should also get a journal so she can write about her art and her ideas. They won't ask to see this but it'll help her build her artist statement and be more confident in her choices. She should take notes on her research here and in her sketchbooks depending on if it's related to work She's doing (Sketching) or work she is thinking about(save for later in journal). 

Lastly ask her who her favorite artists are. Whoever they are, help her research where they went to school and where they teach (if they teach), and get her books about their work. Look up their artists statements (usually on their websites) and go see as much of their work as possible. If they are speaking, go to their talk. Ask her questions about it.

If there's any kind of art community in your city then go and be part of it. Art walks, craft fairs, etc. A community college will usually have student shows, a university will have graduate thesis works. Look at it all.

For me, I started out at a community college. I was able to transfer to a major university (Forbes ranks it number 4 in the country for value; ie worth to cost ratio) with a 3.9 gpa at my college, which let me take the courses i wasn't interested in at a cheaper rate and with more support. It also gave me a chance to explore and develop skills, though she can get that at any liberal arts school like a state university.

Oh, and tell her to make BIG work if you have the space for it. Not right away but have her sketch ideas for a big work, have her so smaller versions. 

BIG is best for painting, drawing etc.

If she can find a local mentor that would be great too.

Psyral Infection said

@noah-fence said 
How old is she?  ... 

Reveal Spoiler

First she should figure out if she wants to be a designer, an illustrator, or an artist.

The differences:

• • • • Design is a commercial function used to sell products. It's focus is clarity, and a designers best asset is having an intuitive sense for brand unification. 

• • • • Illustrators are people who draw things for other people (usually), in a narrative form (typically), with a consistent style. Comics/ manga, cartoons/anime, children's books, etc. Their focus is readability and their best asset is consistency.

• • • • Artists are conceptual framers who create experiences in any medium. She can draw, she can paint, she can glue spaghetti into a pile. Whatever. An artist's focus is on experience and their best asset is research.

If she wants to be a designer she needs to go to a design school. Otis is supposed to be fantastic. They churn out professionals who make some of the most recognizable design solutions in the world. Other than that I have no real information if she wants to design.

If she wants to illustrate, get her to draw as often as possible. Plenty of YouTube channels will teach kids how to copy anime styles and that's a great place to start if she's interested in that form but she needs to learn anatomy and gesture too. She can't choose anime because it's easy or she'll get left behind by people who understand the mechanisms that are at play under the anime and develop her own frame of references. Stuff that is unique to her.

If she wants to be an artist, visit galleries, ask her why she thinks people made the choices they made. I would recommend she make as much work as possible in her chosen field. If she likes to draw, draw everything. If she likes to take photos, photograph everything she sees. Just get used to the process of starting, ending, starting again.

Get her books on Marcel Duchamp who is easily the most important artist in our current phase of creative thought because he helped us move from retinal art to conceptual art.

And begin asking her about the choices she makes in art. Why did she draw the horse that way or why is the shadow in this photograph as dark as it is? Not technical reasons but creative reasons. Art is about choices and getting good at explaining her choices post hoc is a good way to get her to start building her own visual language. Encourage her interests outside of art. They'll help inform her practice.  

She should show her art as much as possible but expect people not to get it. The question of age is really important here. If she's less than a teenager, ignore everything I've said and just let her make art. Jr high and elementary school aged kids aren't going to be in a space where conceptual frameworks are appreciated, unfortunately. High school stuff might be different. Most student contests or shows want refined aesthetic works. She can pursue those but they are ultimately meaningless as an artist (illustrators and designers mileage may vary). 

If she wants to go to art school she should practice making sketchbooks.

A sketchbook is not a book to doodle in. Its basically her research notes. You can get her two books if she wants one to draw her favorite Stephen Universe character in over and over but she needs one to start keeping track of her research.

Her sketchbook should include drawing exercises where she tries to figure out anatomy, composition, shading, coloring, (if she paints color mixing and brushwork), and various experiments she wants to try. The impulse people have is to try to make the sketchbook for submitting -perfect-. Tell her to fight that instinct. She needs to show them how she solves problems, aesthetic and conceptual, and that she's okay with failing. She has to take risks even if they don't work out and then figure out how to make them work. Follow through with ideas.

She should also get a journal so she can write about her art and her ideas. They won't ask to see this but it'll help her build her artist statement and be more confident in her choices. She should take notes on her research here and in her sketchbooks depending on if it's related to work She's doing (Sketching) or work she is thinking about(save for later in journal). 

Lastly ask her who her favorite artists are. Whoever they are, help her research where they went to school and where they teach (if they teach), and get her books about their work. Look up their artists statements (usually on their websites) and go see as much of their work as possible. If they are speaking, go to their talk. Ask her questions about it.

If there's any kind of art community in your city then go and be part of it. Art walks, craft fairs, etc. A community college will usually have student shows, a university will have graduate thesis works. Look at it all.

For me, I started out at a community college. I was able to transfer to a major university (Forbes ranks it number 4 in the country for value; ie worth to cost ratio) with a 3.9 gpa at my college, which let me take the courses i wasn't interested in at a cheaper rate and with more support. It also gave me a chance to explore and develop skills, though she can get that at any liberal arts school like a state university.

Oh, and tell her to make BIG work if you have the space for it. Not right away but have her sketch ideas for a big work, have her so smaller versions. 

BIG is best for painting, drawing etc.

If she can find a local mentor that would be great too.  

She's going on 20 years old.

And Thanks! Your reply was exactly the kind of information I was looking for.  

I didn't even think about her being an adult, lol. 

I hope it helps. Most of the hands on engagement stuff you can probably disregard. 

Slumerican502 said
Shaman you know what shuts down discussion? Calling people racist because they don't have the same views and values as you. I don't expect you or Rob to agree with me cuz y'all can't see it.

Krunk has had plenty to say it ain't just memes buts that's all you see...once again don't take my word for it look through the forum...or don't.

There was a thread where Rob literally said we need to end whiteness.You fucking chuckled at it and the only person that called Rob on his horseshit was chuckie boy. The same thread y'all were calling both of them racist while they were defending themselves. Neither one of them have ever said anything remotely racist.  

To answer robs question THAT is what a post modern ethos is. Its literally repackaged Marxism. Instead of class politics it became identity politics. 

If y'all can't see why the way you think is fucking dangerous then maybe you never will. If you don't think it has affected things here then once again spend an evening reading through the forum. Its apparent to me. It ain't just here. Its destroying YouTube right now and destroying europe. The alt left and the alt right needs to be stamped the fuck out

Rob I have always thought about what you write. You can't pin that shit on me. I ain't on psyrals team or your team. I'm not entirely on the left or right. If you've read my shit over the years you should know I'm a thoughtful(but flawed) person. Its really really apparent to me you don't show those who disagree the same courtesy. Its apparent by what you write.

I'm aware what I say doesnt mean anything. I just feel like there isn't anybody calling y'all on your shit. So there it is. Somebody had to say something.

I guarantee it will continue but there it is.  

You bemoan identity politics but you get mad that people don't respect your identity of white male.

Whiteness is a myth. It doesn't exist. It's leftover from archaic thinking and the idea is whiteness was created to justify slavery and colonialism. Ending whiteness isn't about ending you, it's about ending the perceptions you have of yourself, and the perceptions our culture has that racial differences exist.

You make some pretty far out claims that I don't listen but you repeatedly ignore what other people are saying.

Then you jump on other accounts and say the same shit over again.

I literally don't care what your political makeup is. White identity politics are racism and they are what trump used to take power. 

I'm aware what I say doesnt mean anything.

Maybe try making it mean something.

I just feel like there isn't anybody calling y'all on your shit. So there it is. Somebody had to say something.

That's all I'm doing for you and krunk. You support Trump and white identity politics, I'm calling you racist. If that bothers you, think about why that is and adjust. Or don't and keep getting bothered by it.

Or do what krunk did and just full on accept it.

Solomon Grundy said
Whiteness was created to justify slavery and colonization? What was blackness, brownness and redness created to justify? Was blackness created to justify rape?  

"Black" is a post slavery construct used to unify a group of individuals who are oppressed by whiteness after having their culture identities stolen from their. 

Most black people in the US or other slavery based economic systems have no records of where their ancestors  came from or who they were as people.

There's no black race. There's no white race. These constructs developed because Europeans thought they were inherently better than other people.

That you link black and rape is telling, considering your ancestors raped mine.

Hey I'm hijacking my own thread. 

I am working on a piece about binary thinking.

Or rather, naturally occurring binaries and our relationships to them.

The piece isn't about gender tho I anticipate people will read it as related to the ongoing gender debate.

So here's how you can help, Slum since you have all the answers.

I'm trying to think of naturally occurring binary systems. That means true binaries not culturally imposed binaries. Also it has to have no variance or gray area. Any ideas?