I'd rather burn bigots for warmth, should I start with you?

RobTidwell said
I'd rather burn bigots for warmth, should I start with you?

See you in the pit, baby.

My dick in your butt be morbid

Five sporks to the nuts is morbid

Dont ever ask me what you think is morbid

Or they find your body while snorklin.

scruffy said
doubt krunk falls into the bigot category...  but twas a dumb quote, surely.  

the t slur is just as offensive as the n slur. Would you be okay if the lyric were changed to include the n slur? I wouldn't.

Psyral Infection said

RobTidwell said

Psyral Infection said

Sean Law said
Inspired.

That is NOT my inspiration. She still looks like a guy (at least her face does) in that pic.

What kills my inspiration? Severe cranial trauma. Death. Dismemberment. ... Well maybe not those unless those events are happening to me.

Fixed it for ya. 

My take on anything like this is that I will fight for your right to not be discriminated against. I will fight for your right to call yourself what ever you want to call yourself. I will fight for TOTAL equality for everyone. But I will not fight for special treatment of anyone. They are either equal or special but not both. And I don't believe anyone is special.

Anyone can call me anything they want here in America because we have free speech. All people, no matter what they think of themselves should accept that anyone can call anyone anything they want. I will defend that right of free speech forever. If a non-transgender person who is male that has feminine characteristics gets called a female, it is not considered hate speech or discrimination. It is usually a descriptive term. When I see a person who looks like a male, I am going to call that person a male, even if I am mistaken in their selective identity. I am not psychic so I have no clue what someone wants to call themselves before they let me know what that is. I am not going to walk on egg shells around everyone just so I don't accidentally offend someone who thinks they should be treated special by being addressed in only certain way. Again, no one is special. If someone mistakes my long hair for me being a girl accidentally, I am not going to get offended.

The point I guess I am trying to make is that trans-gender, or whatever the arbitrarily decided PC term for that is, should in no way get any special treatment for anything. They are equal and should be treated as such and should expect nothing more or less that equal treatment. Which means that like everyone else in the world, they shouldn't expect anything different from anyone. 

How is asking people to respect basic decency asking for special treatment? I'm sorry but you're deliberately calling her a man because you are deliberately rejecting her as a woman and that is bigotry, plain and simple. 

It is not a descriptive term. It is not a "selective" identity. It is who they are. You don't need to be psychic. Caitlyn has declared herself to be transgender. She has provided you with a name that is aligned with femininity and has presented her new feminine body. There is - no reason - to be hostile towards her for expressing herself. No one is asking you to walk on egg shells. the "PC Police" aren't arresting you or ticketing you or doing anything. They're simply saying that you're being an asshole and you need to stop. It's common courtesy.

I had long hair for a long time and when people mistook me for a girl, I didn't get offended either. But what if you told me you were not a girl but a man and I kept calling you she? What if I asked what you use to make it look like you have a penis or if I asked what your "real" name was because your masculine name didn't "seem right". Transgender people are murdered and raped nearly every day by men who do the same crap that you're doing to her. Every day a transwoman gets so tired of being told that she isn't who she is that she decides to try and kill herself because transphobic shits write lyrics about burning her alive or call her all sorts of slurs and derogatory comments and you're upset that someone changed the pronouns in your post? If I started keeping a list of bigots in my sig, would you be "okay" with my free speech?

Psyral Infection said

krunkazphuk said
The morbid thread inspires me:

"Burn trannies for warmth, cuz I'm morbid;
Flashfry PC police in hot grease, cuz I'm morbid."
 

RobTidwell said
I'd rather burn bigots for warmth, should I start with you?

She's definitely not a bigot. She thinks everyone is equal so everyone should be able to be the target of morbid lyrics equally. And the reference to PC police goes along with what I think about the whole PC thing. The "PC terms" are arbitrary and dynamic. How is everyone supposed to know every term that is PC at that particular time. And the term can change between one year to the next. It's correct one year, then the next it's hate speech.

People who use slurs are bigots. It's not about being "PC" it's about not being a bigot. Don't say racist things and people won't call you a racist. Don't say transphobic things and people won't call you a transphobe.

Making mistakes and using outdated terms is fine if you're willing to heed that you fucked up, but that isn't anything that's happened here. The t slur has been a slur for decades. Sometimes 'official' words change because they gain traction and are misused. For example, for a while trans*gender was the "preferred" term because the asterisk was supposed to remind people that some trans people don't necessarily look "trans" or don't transition from male to female or from female to male but instead transition out of the gender binary. But then transphobic shits started using trans*woman to describe transwomen and explained that the asterisk meant they weren't really women. Transgender people have every right to exist peacefully in this world the same as you. They don't want special treatment, they just don't want you to be an asshole. It's not that hard.

RobTidwell said

It is not a descriptive term. It is not a "selective" identity. It is who they are. 

Shit, forgot about this part. I completely agree. I think there's a narrative we need to have as a society about what makes a man a man and a woman a woman but until we finally address it, if you identify as a woman, you're a woman. If you identify as a man, you're a man. 

CellE2057 said

RobTidwell said

It is not a descriptive term. It is not a "selective" identity. It is who they are. 

Shit, forgot about this part. I completely agree. I think there's a narrative we need to have as a society about what makes a man a man and a woman a woman but until we finally address it, if you identify as a woman, you're a woman. If you identify as a man, you're a man. 

Scientists have recently discovered that theres part of your brain that is wired to specifically construct identity. It tells you where you fit in with the rest of the world. People who are trans (whether agender, bigender, gender fluid, or a transwoman or transman) have brains which function in the same way and tells them that how ever they're wired is who they are. Trans people have been saying for centuries that they simply "feel" like they're not the gender they were assigned at birth and want to express their true identity. 

It's also important to note that many cultures through out time have had multiple genders and that gender roles across cultures fluctuate big time. What we think of as masculine might be feminine in another culture and in yet another might be a third gender or a fourth or a fifth.

In some native american tribes, for example, shamans were sometimes described as being "two spirit" which meant that they were both men and women at the same time (ie third gender). Also in many native american tribes, children less than five were not recognized as male or female but another gender which was often translated as "child" (ie a fourth gender) and some even had specific gender roles for tribal elders (a fifth gender).

People are literally whatever they say they are and it's time we start just accepting that. It literally hurts no one to treat Caitlyn or any other transperson with the same courtesy you'd show any stranger who is a man or a woman.

scruffy said

while i appreciate your takin up of the cause, and championing the rights of the traditionally downtrodden, rob, id say you neednt be quite so bent about it.  

krunk was, in the end, makin a cheap joke.  had she known it would offend, i suspect shed have reserved it. 

I'm not even bent about it. 

Krunk was purposefully being offensive though. Deliberately. It was a cheap joke and it's fine to make cheap jokes and it's purpose was to offend. All I was saying was I don't like it. It's up to krunk on how to incorporate that into future posts.

Same as the people who got all huffy about "PC Police" or purposefully misgendering Caitlyn or what have you. Everybody is free to disregard what I say, but that isn't going to stop me from saying it. I know a lot of wonderful trans people. Some are juggalos. None of them come to this board because of posts like that or the bigoted posts and none of them have ever felt safe attending the gathering because of posts like that and that's a damn shame because trans people make our community better.

RobTidwell said

You're welcome to be OK with that if you want but personally speaking i would find it disgusting. ICP found it disgusting when they censored a similar lyric on the song Natural Born Killaz. It's a shame they don't feel the same way about homophobic and transphobic slurs, but they certainly saw that a lyric containing a racist slur was wrong.

Mostly agree'd. I would find it disgusting too but that wasn't the question lol. The only argument I have against this is that I recommend watching "The F Word" episode of South Park. Certain words take on a different meaning over time. I think when ICP use "fag" (what I assume you're referring to. Correct me if I'm wrong though) they're, mostly, using it the same way that that episode uses it. A synonym for "douche" basically. There have been a few exceptions that are definitely cringe worthy but I think their heart is in a progressive state more often than not. However misguided they may be at times. Someone on here said that they think J is a deep guy, he's just not very smart. I think that sums it up well. 

I know she's trying to be offensive. It doesn't remove the fact that she's being offensive. No one, literally no one, said anything about her "believing" what she's saying. But bigotry isn't simply about being openly violent towards a minority. It can be insidious and it's part of our culture. 

Naw, I don't claim you think she's believing it. Maybe I worded it poorly. It's late and I need sleep. My point was that her saying an offensive thing for the sake of being offensive is the point and you're missing it. You've basically looked at Campbell's Soup Cans by Warhol  and said "Hey, those are mundane paintings!" I mean, yeah, I guess you're right but maybe take a step back and try again. 

And for the record, there's no reason for anybody to be defensive because they were told not to be a bigot. Nobody is even asking for an apology or any sort of repayment. I'm literally just saying try to be better in the future. 

You're assuming that saying something bigoted means that someone is a bigot and I disagree. It simply means that they said some offensive shit. You said "But bigotry isn't simply about being openly violent towards a minority" and you're right. But it also isn't simply saying a few offensive words.

In daily life, for sure, everyone should try to be better.  

RobTidwell said

Scientists have recently discovered that theres part of your brain that is wired to specifically construct identity. It tells you where you fit in with the rest of the world. People who are trans (whether agender, bigender, gender fluid, or a transwoman or transman) have brains which function in the same way and tells them that how ever they're wired is who they are. Trans people have been saying for centuries that they simply "feel" like they're not the gender they were assigned at birth and want to express their true identity. 

Dammit, I keep missing the second post. Care to share a source on that? That sounds very interesting.