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What would happen if juggalo culture went mainstream?
November 6, 2014
2:47 pm
The Notorious, L.T.B.
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Per @scruffy ‘s request. I look forward to his essay.

Blood rains down from an angry sky! My cock rages on! My cock rages on!

November 6, 2014
3:42 pm
scruffy
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ah…  more homework for me.  

well, it was exactly a request, as much as it was me pointing out that i neednt rant on the main page when we have a perfectly good forum for the purpose.  

and of course, youll have to wait about twelve hours..  but okay, i do that.  

  

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

November 6, 2014
3:46 pm
GanjaGoblin
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Short answer, it’d be pretty stale for the culture to go mainstream. I wouldn’t be down with that.

November 6, 2014
5:42 pm
Pigg
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Didn’t The Great Milenko and The Amazing Jeckle Brothers both go platinum? Obviously there were people who bought multiple copies, but that’s almost a million people who bought those albums. That was a fairly mainstream culture at the time, I would say.

November 6, 2014
6:22 pm
The Notorious, L.T.B.
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LuckyNumbrXIII said
can someone define “juggalo culture” for me please?  I have several juggalo friends that smoke weed, curse loudly in public, and just listen to music and mooch off their parents.  then i have some that went to college and work as bean counters, are quiet about being a juggalo, but enjoy it when home.  then there’s me somewhere in the middle.  i know juggalos that don’t like icp anymore.  I know juggalos that like icp now more than before.  i know juggalos that never heard the original 6 joker cards.  i know juggalos that like rap, rock, edm, indie music…..

 

so, what if juggalo went mainstream?  i dunno, maybe the gathering would make PSY records some more cash money.

Love of bloody murder music, you know, shit like stab your fuckin eye. (ICP fandom, or more broadly associated acts) only hanging with hoodlums and weirdos and junkies, keep’em by your side (acceptance of everyone, regardless of all that negative shit. Particularly outcasts)

ICP and family-esque comradery. That’s juggalo culture

Blood rains down from an angry sky! My cock rages on! My cock rages on!

November 6, 2014
8:21 pm
Pigg
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I’ve never actually disliked something because it was “cool” or “mainstream” that just means I finally can talk to someone about it. I know like 2 people I can meaninfully talk about ICP with, and I don’t see them too often.

November 6, 2014
10:49 pm
The Notorious, L.T.B.
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God damn I would be so sad to see hipsters at a renaissance fair. It’s like, the one place i can be a total fucking nerd with my little brother and they’d go n ruin the vibe. Also, I’m with lucky on hating shit that’s trendy. My current thing is conspiracy thepries andnpot legalization. Every slack jawed, drooling piece of shit on earth has something to say about those things now, like any of them know anything about the shit. “Religion is for idiots, the government is a lie, you’re such a sheep–I watched zeitgeist, I know!” Fuck them.

Blood rains down from an angry sky! My cock rages on! My cock rages on!

November 6, 2014
11:12 pm
Old Mr Dangerous
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the mainstream still loves to mention Juggalos for (what they think.is) comedic effect… peep the caption of a Hells Angel on todays Cracked article called 5 Groups we Misinterpreted or something. Link to Juggalo FBI article

November 7, 2014
7:41 am
scruffy
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all right…  first, some back info:  

wonka69 said, in the main page article comments  
what do you mean “if”? shit went mainstream years ago!    

sketchez then said  
who the fuck give a fuck    

… and then, scruffy said  
‘juggalo culture’ is almost a contradiction in terms.  
most juggalos wont culture shit. quite a few seem to be trying [harder than youd think is worth it] to actively fuck it up.  

i dont remember juggalo culture going mainstream, wonka. one could argue that icp went mainstream [and weve been arguing about that since damn near the start], but all of us? nah.  

addendem: sketchez… youre right, of course. but in the end, for better or worse, i happen to be a juggalo. so, i do actually give a fuck, when it comes to the culture as a whole. as i say, most juggalos dont give enough fucks about culture; what they wanna do is [a] talk shit, [b] get free shit, [c] speculate wildly on dumb shit, and/or [d] make money off other juggalos. none of those things will ever get us anywhere.    

after that, YayYay said  
I really don’t give a fuck what this world does or thinks. I’m gonna be a juggalo until I die and ICP’s gonna keep dropping dope shit for me to bump and look forward to. Same as it’s always been.

…aaaaand then, scruffy said  
true enough.
im just talkin bout the grand issues n shit.
somebody starts a topic about it in the forum, ill write another essay. in the meanwhile, your opinion will cover it nicely.

and that, is why i am now wasting so much of your time.  

it would appear that ltb read my last comment, there, and thought, 

LTB possibly thought to himself
hey, i wanna read that, or at least, i know that scruffy doesnt want to look like a liar… so, im gonna force him to write an essay by starting that thread.

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

November 7, 2014
7:47 am
scruffy
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so, here you go:  

  

theres a fuckton of things to consider [dont worry, i wont be considering all of them], in this case.  

for one thing, no two people seem to favor the same definition of what ‘mainstream’ means.  or ‘underground’.  for me, i dont really like either term, since the lines are so unclear.  they are completely relative.  

then there is the definition of juggalo culture.  this is a little easier;  for now, assume it is ‘everything about juggalo life that is outside of psychopathic records’.  or any record label, for that matter.  not discounting the musical aspects of the culture, mind you, just taking the industry-ness out of it.  take, leave, or alter this definition as you see fit; its also somewhat relative.  

 

has juggalo culture gone mainstream?  

i dont see it.  

there would have to be a much wider recognition of juggalos by those not involved in the culture, before i could even begin to think so.  after that, when you start to see things like major corporations marketing directly to us, to sell us nikes or budweiser [as opposed to face paint or faygo], then youre talkin about a mainstream culture, for sure.  

as big as the juggalo world has gotten, its still hopelessly swamped by the rest of the world.  at the absolute sunniest, the ratio of non-juggalos to juggalos is at minimum a thousand to one.  i figure it to be a lot higher.  

0.1% of anything shouldnt be called mainstream.  

 

beyond that, acceptance is the next important factor.  we are not especially accepted.  

i dont mean accepted in the sense of being appreciated and embraced, but in the sense of the outsiders respecting the fact that we exist, and living with it, without losing their rag.  that has clearly not happened yet.  [hell, the insiders are still routinely losing their rags over the littlest shit]

 

next, we juggalos gotta do some growing.  maturing.  evolving.  perfecting.  lots of other verbs.  

the model has always been that this ‘problem’ of going mainstream is a self-correcting one;  the juggalos are very resistant to change, all things considered.  and kinda lazy, as a group.  and way self-interested, amongst the go-getters, anyway.  those factors mitigate a bit against growth, popularity, prosperity, and all the prerequisites and perquisites of being mainstream.  

 

has insane clown posse gone mainstream?  

well, i said it was relative, so lets get relative.  

compared to twenty years ago?  fuck yeah.  no question, they are far more ‘mainstream’ now, than then.  

compared to ten years ago?  not really.  still roughly the same level, if there were such a thing as levels for this sorta comparison.  

 

is icp or juggalo culture going mainstream such a bad thing?  

eh, kinda, but not particularly.  

it does take a bit of the fun out of it, and a little of the individuality.  and obviously, its harder to feel connected to the clowns when the crowd is five times bigger.  

but juggalo culture is not limited to attaching yourself to j and shaggy.  thats an itty bitty piece of it.  bigger than that, is attaching yourself to other juggalos, and just doing shit.  uh, constructive shit, that is, not getting wasted or committing crimes or bitching about everything or what have you.  that shit is incidental, and ultimately irrelevant to the culture.  this is what i meant when i said that juggalos dont really do a lot of culturing.  the real culture-building is done by a smallish percentage of a group that is already a miniscule percentage of the whole.  

as i said, i do give fucks about the culture.  i live it, i like it, i want it to continue.  i want juggalos to have identity and unity, to accummulate, connect, and improve each others lives.  

being more ‘mainstream’ would likely make all that easier and more open, grant more avenues to explore;  all kinds of benefits.  

 

i cant tell you how many juggalos ive talked to over the years, who have told me that the first time they ever heard anything at all about icp, was through some mainstream outlet or another.  

wwf/wcw, mtv…  i myself first found them from a track on a movie soundtrack, for fucks sake.  

you know what?  appearing with the oddities probably brought them ten thousand more album sales, and ill bet that three thousand of those buyers are still down today.  and have long since bought the back catalog.  

more money for psychopathic, to start doing cool shit like gatherings.  more juggalos for the family.  neither of those things is inherently bad.  

 

what would happen if juggalo culture went mainstream?  

for specifics, no one can say;  thatd be more of that speculation.  

but what i can say is, ‘people would get used to it.’   

 

us.  them.  that guy over there.  all of us would find some new equilibrium, and keep doing what we do.  

  

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

November 7, 2014
7:50 am
scruffy
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and now, to waste your time further…  a triple post from scruffy.  

  

wanted to quickly point out that i didnt read the q&a in the original article.  since i was q&aing myself, i wasnt too worried about it.  but i have no idea what points may have been addressed there.    

  

LuckyNumbrXIII said  
can someone define “juggalo culture” for me please?    

see above.  more to the purpose, it is in effect every year at the gathering, hallowicked, et cetera.  

  

Lucky and everybody else said  
all that stuff up there about hipsters and such.  

one of the prime drawbacks that i didnt get into in the essay, is that there would naturally be a lot more tourists, gettin in the way.  

but some of those tourists would be new juggalos who just didnt know it yet.  and the rest can be toyed with for our amusement, although they really shouldnt get any more abuse than that.  

  

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

November 7, 2014
10:29 am
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The Notorious, L.T.B. said
God damn I would be so sad to see hipsters at a renaissance fair. It’s like, the one place i can be a total fucking nerd with my little brother and they’d go n ruin the vibe. Also, I’m with lucky on hating shit that’s trendy. My current thing is conspiracy thepries andnpot legalization. Every slack jawed, drooling piece of shit on earth has something to say about those things now, like any of them know anything about the shit. “Religion is for idiots, the government is a lie, you’re such a sheep–I watched zeitgeist, I know!” Fuck them.

ignorance is bliss

November 7, 2014
11:23 am
The Notorious, L.T.B.
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Violentdope said

The Notorious, L.T.B. said
God damn I would be so sad to see hipsters at a renaissance fair. It’s like, the one place i can be a total fucking nerd with my little brother and they’d go n ruin the vibe. Also, I’m with lucky on hating shit that’s trendy. My current thing is conspiracy thepries andnpot legalization. Every slack jawed, drooling piece of shit on earth has something to say about those things now, like any of them know anything about the shit. “Religion is for idiots, the government is a lie, you’re such a sheep–I watched zeitgeist, I know!” Fuck them.

ignorance is bliss

Yawn.

Blood rains down from an angry sky! My cock rages on! My cock rages on!

November 7, 2014
11:23 am
The Notorious, L.T.B.
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scruffy said
so, here you go:  

  

theres a fuckton of things to consider [dont worry, i wont be considering all of them], in this case.  

for one thing, no two people seem to favor the same definition of what ‘mainstream’ means.  or ‘underground’.  for me, i dont really like either term, since the lines are so unclear.  they are completely relative.  

then there is the definition of juggalo culture.  this is a little easier;  for now, assume it is ‘everything about juggalo life that is outside of psychopathic records’.  or any record label, for that matter.  not discounting the musical aspects of the culture, mind you, just taking the industry-ness out of it.  take, leave, or alter this definition as you see fit; its also somewhat relative.  

 

has juggalo culture gone mainstream?  

i dont see it.  

there would have to be a much wider recognition of juggalos by those not involved in the culture, before i could even begin to think so.  after that, when you start to see things like major corporations marketing directly to us, to sell us nikes or budweiser [as opposed to face paint or faygo], then youre talkin about a mainstream culture, for sure.  

as big as the juggalo world has gotten, its still hopelessly swamped by the rest of the world.  at the absolute sunniest, the ratio of non-juggalos to juggalos is at minimum a thousand to one.  i figure it to be a lot higher.  

0.1% of anything shouldnt be called mainstream.  

 

beyond that, acceptance is the next important factor.  we are not especially accepted.  

i dont mean accepted in the sense of being appreciated and embraced, but in the sense of the outsiders respecting the fact that we exist, and living with it, without losing their rag.  that has clearly not happened yet.  [hell, the insiders are still routinely losing their rags over the littlest shit]

 

next, we juggalos gotta do some growing.  maturing.  evolving.  perfecting.  lots of other verbs.  

the model has always been that this ‘problem’ of going mainstream is a self-correcting one;  the juggalos are very resistant to change, all things considered.  and kinda lazy, as a group.  and way self-interested, amongst the go-getters, anyway.  those factors mitigate a bit against growth, popularity, prosperity, and all the prerequisites and perquisites of being mainstream.  

 

has insane clown posse gone mainstream?  

well, i said it was relative, so lets get relative.  

compared to twenty years ago?  fuck yeah.  no question, they are far more ‘mainstream’ now, than then.  

compared to ten years ago?  not really.  still roughly the same level, if there were such a thing as levels for this sorta comparison.  

 

is icp or juggalo culture going mainstream such a bad thing?  

eh, kinda, but not particularly.  

it does take a bit of the fun out of it, and a little of the individuality.  and obviously, its harder to feel connected to the clowns when the crowd is five times bigger.  

but juggalo culture is not limited to attaching yourself to j and shaggy.  thats an itty bitty piece of it.  bigger than that, is attaching yourself to other juggalos, and just doing shit.  uh, constructive shit, that is, not getting wasted or committing crimes or bitching about everything or what have you.  that shit is incidental, and ultimately irrelevant to the culture.  this is what i meant when i said that juggalos dont really do a lot of culturing.  the real culture-building is done by a smallish percentage of a group that is already a miniscule percentage of the whole.  

as i said, i do give fucks about the culture.  i live it, i like it, i want it to continue.  i want juggalos to have identity and unity, to accummulate, connect, and improve each others lives.  

being more ‘mainstream’ would likely make all that easier and more open, grant more avenues to explore;  all kinds of benefits.  

 

i cant tell you how many juggalos ive talked to over the years, who have told me that the first time they ever heard anything at all about icp, was through some mainstream outlet or another.  

wwf/wcw, mtv…  i myself first found them from a track on a movie soundtrack, for fucks sake.  

you know what?  appearing with the oddities probably brought them ten thousand more album sales, and ill bet that three thousand of those buyers are still down today.  and have long since bought the back catalog.  

more money for psychopathic, to start doing cool shit like gatherings.  more juggalos for the family.  neither of those things is inherently bad.  

 

what would happen if juggalo culture went mainstream?  

for specifics, no one can say;  thatd be more of that speculation.  

but what i can say is, ‘people would get used to it.’   

 

us.  them.  that guy over there.  all of us would find some new equilibrium, and keep doing what we do.  

  

There it is

Blood rains down from an angry sky! My cock rages on! My cock rages on!

November 7, 2014
11:51 am
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The Notorious, L.T.B. said

Violentdope said

The Notorious, L.T.B. said
God damn I would be so sad to see hipsters at a renaissance fair. It’s like, the one place i can be a total fucking nerd with my little brother and they’d go n ruin the vibe. Also, I’m with lucky on hating shit that’s trendy. My current thing is conspiracy thepries andnpot legalization. Every slack jawed, drooling piece of shit on earth has something to say about those things now, like any of them know anything about the shit. “Religion is for idiots, the government is a lie, you’re such a sheep–I watched zeitgeist, I know!” Fuck them.

ignorance is bliss

Yawn.

I agree with LTB.

ICP’s been mainstream since Milenko. Juggalos have been mainstream since Miracles. Neither us nor ICP have been mainstream loved and accepted though. We’ve been getting dissed. Because we’re scrubs. So unless the world plans on going scrub, we’re never gonna be fully mainstream in the sense that we’re accepted. We’re popular just enough for people to know who we are so they can diss us. And popular enough for chicks to kiss us. It’s better to exist and be dissed than not exist at all. Fuck it I love it. Scrub life bitches. There’s no escaping it. Fearing going mainstream is just as dumb as wanting to go mainstream so stop worrying. Just enjoy this crazy ass ride for what it is. The world doesn’t know what to make of us. We can’t make sense of ourselves. J’s tried over the years and even he can’t. We always have been and always will be this weird subculture. A big ass family of outcasts, scrubs, and freaks.

November 7, 2014
1:55 pm
krunk
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If the human population ever bottlenecks again and gets down to under 10,000 maybe we’ll be mainstream. Otherwise I don’t see it happening. Until then role models like Chris Brown can keep cranking out the hits.

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November 7, 2014
5:38 pm
scruffy
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at least all of us ‘dumb fucks’ read the topic title.  

  

YayYay said  
ICP’s been mainstream since Milenko. Juggalos have been mainstream since Miracles. Neither us nor ICP have been mainstream loved and accepted though. We’ve been getting dissed. Because we’re scrubs. So unless the world plans on going scrub, we’re never gonna be fully mainstream in the sense that we’re accepted. We’re popular just enough for people to know who we are so they can diss us. And popular enough for chicks to kiss us. It’s better to exist and be dissed than not exist at all. Fuck it I love it. Scrub life bitches. There’s no escaping it. Fearing going mainstream is just as dumb as wanting to go mainstream so stop worrying. Just enjoy this crazy ass ride for what it is. The world doesn’t know what to make of us. We can’t make sense of ourselves. J’s tried over the years and even he can’t. We always have been and always will be this weird subculture. A big ass family of outcasts, scrubs, and freaks.  

i dont really agree with the second sentence, but the rest is on point.  

  

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

November 7, 2014
6:07 pm
YayYay
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I shower and brush my teeth and I’m still a scrub.

About juggalos being mainstream since Miracles scruffy? Look at all the documentaries that have happened on juggalos since then and skits about us. People knew who ICP were but juggalos weren’t even on the radar until the last 5 years. Also look at how many bands now name their fans something after ICP’s success got documented in the BPB era with that Dateline piece. Not that ICP were the first but ya know. Hell even saying what up ninja is mainstream now. I hear it everywhere. I’m like what the hell. Maybe I’m giving too much credit to ICP and us but I don’t remember this stuff exploding until recently. I’m not saying we’re embraced. Just that people actually did research on who we are and even started biting it to an extent. Where as before it was “a juggalo? what’s that like a gigalo hur hur”.

November 7, 2014
6:13 pm
stretchSquiggles
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i agree with scruffy up there in his “essay”

and i read that on the main page and said “well it’s already mainstream enough for me to get dirty looks and nasty ‘really…ICP?’ comments from assholes on a weekly biases, so it going anymore mainstream probably won’t change too much of anything”  

"HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN, ONCE YOU SURRENDER THE ABILITY TO PROPERLY OPERATE YOUR MIND, YOU ARE THEN SURRENDERING THE ABILITY TO BE THE SHIT. AND THAT ONLY MEANS, YOU AINT SHIT ANYMORE."-SHAGGY2DOPE

November 7, 2014
6:18 pm
scruffy
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YayYay said  
see above.    

well, as i said before, its very relative.  so, yes, we are more mainstream now, than we were before.  

but still, not very much so when compared to the more legitimately ‘mainstream’ cultures.  

  

side note for the etymology buffs:  icp did not invent the idea of using ‘ninja’ as a form of address.  that had been goin on since at least the mid-eighties.  

they/we just ran with it, and nobody else did.  

  

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

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