Psyral Infection said

I never claimed the points were invalid. I was pointing out that they were not examples of the "blatant racism" that I requested. It was a simple, straightforward inquiry.  You made 4 points in your post prior to my request. I did not discount any of those points. I requested examples of something said after those 4 points. 

Not that it matters since it seems that I cannot reasonably debate here since I have "no intellect to speak of." It seems that I am the one who pivoted since I didn't see the equation of "blatant racism"  with "implied" or "insinuated" religious fear or nationalism. But what would you expect from a "coward" like me? Not sure what defines me as a "coward". Maybe it's due to me being a "poor quality human being." My daughter and parents are that too since "so is the family that raised you and any family of your own you currently have." I am glad others are so intuitive and non-coward like to be able to make these statements of people they have never met.  

I did not call you an idiot, a coward, nor did I insult your intellect or upbringing.  Ok, so humor me and replace "blatant racism" with "blatant discrimination based on nationality, religion, and class" and then re-evaluate that long response in terms of all of the points that he brought up.  That's much more difficult to defend and cannot be deflected by "nope, you said the wrong word."

Psyral Infection said

JuggaloJ said
"How is that racist. That is in reference to a country, not a race. That is a fact."

Pivot is what you did here. Not an intellectual argument. ADDRESS THE IMPLICATIONS you coward. He said "why do we need PEOPLE from shithole counties" As I stated what he is 100% clearly implying is BECAUSE a certain person is from an impoverished country they MUST be of poor quality. That is stereotyping and blatant racism.

So is that true? Do YOU think that because someone is from a country who's government is run like shit all their people must be total shit? Or do you condemn that type of rhetoric and any person that spews it? I bet you don't. 

You clearly said "blatant" racism and are now saying you were talking implications? And I am the one pivoting? If you are going to discount semantics and go into what you believe someone was implying, then you are not even trying to debate.  And by every definition, what I gave was an intellectual argument. I have no idea what to call what you are saying. It is by no means intellectual or an argument. Yes, I am using semantics but without it, we devolve into suppositions and emotional outbursts which from your consistent use of  calling me a coward, seems to be what you are doing.  

And I do not condemn any rhetoric of any kind. I want people to say exactly what they want without restriction. I will, though, say I disagree with what he said.  

"Again… A country. Not a race. If you assume the entire country is of a particular race, then maybe you are the racist." 

If were both going to be completely factual here he was commenting on illegal immigrants, but again you're a coward who pivoted away from the POINT. 

Do YOU thank that illegal immigrant are by large rapists and murderers with SOME being good people you "assume"? Or do you think that its mostly people in a desperate situation fleeing to a land they see as hope with SOME being bad people as you would find in any population? Which is it? 

Again, you are projecting, The point of my query was about the "blatant" racism when I asked for examples. That is all I inquired about. What you gave was not that. 

I do not think that those are the only two choices but to answer your question within the interrogative constraints  you have given, I do not think that illegal immigrants are by large rapists and murderers.  I would go with the latter of people in a desperate situation. 

"His exact tweet was: Border rancher: “We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal.” Washington Examiner People coming across the Southern Border from many countries, some of which would be a big surprise.He said that people are coming from many countries. Again, not race. He quoted someone who made reference to a religion. He, himself, referred to countries. Not race."

You know I do perfectly understand the difference between race and religion. Glad your more worried again about PIVOTING LIKE A COWARD to semantics versus the POINT

There are those "coward" references again. And again with the "pivot". I addressed your response to my inquiry about "blatant racism". In no way did I pivot. It was you who changed the parameters of the debate from blatant to implications. From race to nationality and religion. 

Do YOU agree Muslim women in America who are grieving over the loss of their son patriotically sacrificing his life for our country should be stereotyped? And do YOU truly believe that he wasn't insinuating we should be afraid because Prayer rugs = Muslims, Muslims = terrorists, if you don't that's willful blindness and you're not such a moron that you cant see it, you just choose to cover for it.

I never said what I "believe". I addressed each point of your examples of what you said was "blatant racism". I merely pointed out that they were not racist. They may be (and most likely are) nationalistic. I can see the argument that they are signs of religious fear. But they are not examples of blatant racism.

You have gone from "blatant racism" to "implications" and "insinuating" of things that do not define as racism. I am not sure we can have any type of reasonable debate. I am used to academic debates where such changes (or as you have seemed to have projected upon me, pivots) would not be allowed. Semantics is key to any debate. 

You do not seem to know me at all. You have no idea with what I agree or disagree, with what I condemn or not.  If you look though many of my posts on racism, I call out racism when it is actually racism. I am also against religious bigotry but that is not racism. I have pointed out in other posts that I welcome legal immigration. I have zero issues with asylum seekers that follow the international rules of asylum. There are millions who have entered this country legally with many becoming citizens. I am proud to call them Americans. 

This whole thing was my request for quotes of the "blatant racism". The examples you gave were not that so I responded with why they were not racist. I never said that any of it was right or defensible, only that it was not the blatant racism that you claimed.   

So finally we get an admittance that you don’t agree with hateful discriminatory things that Donald Trump has said that you REFUSE to condem because you are shit. Good job. While I agree you may have correct about some semantics the point was made, the fact you’d rather argue that shows you wanted to shift the taking point to avoid defending your support of a man who pushes this hateful rhetoric even when you don’t agree with it. Because you sold out your moral values. You said I don’t know what you do and don’t condemn...yes I do, you DON’T condemn Trump for this rhetoric, you stand for it and support it. Therefore I don’t need to know you in real life or hold a conversation with you to know where your moral core lies and the quality person you are. 

You obviously weren’t raised well enough by your parents to be a quality human being. I’m sure your family will turn out the same. Good day. 😁

And damn, why dude gotta go and change the math like that...his daughter?? I don’t do violence in front of kids

Why? Because unlike him I have moral values and a core that I stick to. Which is why I am a real man. While this guy cowardly avoids addressing why he won’t condemn a man for comments we all recognize as repugnant.

“I never said that any of it was right or defensible” 

So where are you at condemning this president? Oh wait you don’t...

He gives him a “pass”, because he and his family (including the daughter he is raising) are repugnant people themselves. 

Thank you for conceding and proving my point as other ninjas in here now recognize too bitch 😁

We all now KNOW the quality of who you and your family are. Thank you.

Me for the win ✊

I admit openly I worded the statement wrong should have said “blatant discriminatory/stereotyping statements” not “racist” although if you ask a decent moral compassed human being they’re virtually the same thing and go hand in hand, but you were more worried about avoiding condemning a man for said comments then addressing the REAL question. 

Which is that YES, you may not like things he says but YOU give him a pass because you are garbage. You sold out your own moral values for a political agenda. Fact.

I’m not hateful. Just where I come from people can’t openly support Trump or you’ll get harassed/assaulted. So I was just looking forward to having an open Trump supporting punching bag for once. There’s nothing wrong with inflicting pain and violence against people who prescribe to that kind of rhetoric or turn a blind eye to it. Which you do.

The fact neither you or your wife will try to explain why you won’t condemn this man for his rhetoric shows you have no intellectual/moral ground left to stand on. 

Lets see some more of those intelligent meme’s...lol

Yet again another Trump supporter shows they can’t win a single argument. They’re too stupid/morally corrupt.

Trying to separate support for this president from support of his rhetoric means you are giving him a “pass”.

*mortal combat voice* FINISH HIM

You sold out your values for an advancement of your political agenda. Which makes you a moral whore with no dignity and someone who is NOT worthy of being called a stand up or decent person. 

People are judged in quality of character for what they stand for and believe in. 

I too believe in Trumps free speech right. He has a RIGHT to say it. Doesn’t mean I don’t recognize the rhetoric and I DONT HAVE TO STAND FOR IT. It’s called an opinion on a person based on the words they say and intentions they have...

I know, crazy concept *gasp* 

Why? Because I stand for what I believe in and any person who perscribes to that rhetoric or gives it a “pass” as you do means you don’t stand against the rhetoric, you are complicit in it’s advancement. 

I too have free speech. Glad you respect that. And there is nothing morally wrong with commiting violence against people who are complicit in advancing a message/rhetoric of hate. In fact it’s alot of what ICP and Juggalos unify around and and stand for together.

I concede that calling your daughter trash was inflammatory language and the only thing I don’t stand behind that I said. Kids are just that, kids. Unfortunately she will probably grow to hold the views of her parents making her in effect trash, but until she is a grown woman I shouldn’t speak that way on a child. For all I know she could break the cycle and condemn her parents compliance in garbage rhetoric and become a fantanstic stand up person. For this I crossed the line and I do sincerely apologize. 

But you and you’re wife ARE morally corrupt trash, as I have blatantly spelled out over and over again...I’m beating a dead horse at this point

end rant/ 

JuggaloJ said
1. Yes I absolutely agree black people are targeted by police more then white people for crime due to my previous comments on stereotyping. They know black people, especially those who dress and present themselves a certain way, are more likely to be participating in criminal activity. This can actually be a useful tool in cracking down on crime, but is absolutely inexcusable in a just and truly free society. It is still true however by basically every measure I’ve seen statistically that black people do commit crime at a higher rate per capita then white (due to issues/challenges previously discussed).

2. Cops are more often then not pieces of shit - men with small dicks and an inferiority complex - they fuck with everyone, myself included. If they think you aren’t connected and they can get away with it, they’ll treat you like gestapo. I’m white and I suffer from police harassment on the regular, have for over 10 years, my entire adult life. I am under the assumption cops are no more/less “racist” then the average population (which is to say fairly contingent upon where you live). Hell, the only person I’ve ever seen killed by the cops (or to be more specific: the only person I’ve ever seen murdered with my own two eyes for that matter) was a white guy. Not saying unjustified fucked up shit don’t happen to black people, it does, but it also happens to everyone, cops are assholes. The fact black people suffer from it more often is because of what we addressed in #1

3. Yes I completely agree that white collar crime should be prosecuted equally as blue collar. Which is why black people who commit the latter at a much higher rate are incarcerated far more often then white people who are guilty of FAR FAR more of the prior. And one is not necessarily worse then the other by any means. Which is the bigger issue, not judges and prosecutors being racist. I’m far more likely to believe in modern day America that these types of people make their decisions based upon which defense lawyers take them out to dinner on the reg and are in their pockets etc, which I can assure you public defenders are NOT lol, which brings us to...

4. I don’t think in modern day America that racism is super prevalent (unless you go to the Deep South and/or Donald Trumps base) we are in fact probably the least racist country on earth to be totally honest. I don’t think we have a government system built against anyone. We have no laws on the books that discriminate against anyone, in fact if you’re caught in one of those housing type schemes you mentioned make no mistake you WILL BE sued, it happed to The Donald in the 80’s for EXACTLY that as a matter a fact, for discrimination against blacks for residency in his buildings. Or if you just do happen to be slick enough to avoid the law in some crazy loophole if the public knows about it you will almost certainly never be able to do business again because you will be ostracized, and rightfully so. There is no culturally excepting melting pot like this county on earth, trust me, I’m pretty well educated and traveled. Systematic racism is not nearly as big a boogie man as Democrats make it out to be. It’s a very small obstacle to overcome in this privledged nation compared to almost anywhere else you could be a citizen of. The problems black people face are the same as almost anyone else in poor/lower class America, white people included. It’s like starting a game of monopoly but some people already have most of the money and property on the board and you have jack shit, who do you think is gonna have tons of money and property still and who is gonna be stuck paying money at every turn and getting nowhere despite how long you play the game?! I think we all know the answer... some just make it their absolute goal and don’t give up, get incredibly lucky, and overcome the odds. But as my last post made sure to address, there is historical reasons behind why black people as a whole face these obstacles more then white Americans who have a much higher percentage of the population well off.

I acknowledge fully that there is rampant racism within the Republican Party, has been my entire life. And the Left uses this absolutely true fact as club to paint all Republicans/conservatives as rasist or condoning racism. A fair number of us don’t, we’re the Never Trumpers. The Republicans who have dignity and didn’t sell out their moral values. And I’m not worried about pushing Trump supporters away. They’re a lost cause. Even if they disagree with blatant racist things he says the fact they give him a pass for it speaks directly to their moral fiber and character. People who condone racism or turn a blind eye to it are every bit as guilty. They should all die. If these cowards do post pics of themselves online before they go to the gathering I will gladly post a pic of myself...let’s see how many random Juggalos I can get to do a massive stomp out of fake ass Juggahoes who condone racist rhetoric, I’m betting a HUGE crowd 😁  

 I think you missed my point which is that statistics don't tell the whole truth. What is the crime statistic based on? I bet it doesn't count crime it doesn't know about, or crime that doesn't get reported, or crime that doesn't get a conviction. Like the statistics on cops killing people have tons of blank spots because most areas of the country don't keep track of it. (well, at least the few years ago when I was looking these things up) I think racism is much more prevalent than you think. I've met way too many racist people. I get to hear what other white people say behind closed doors. I think Trump showed us that America has way more racists than we anticipated. We keep seeing so many examples of our system going out of it's way to hold black people back revealing themselves lately that I just can't stand by the idea that we aren't that racist. To be fair, on the other side of the spectrum, let's not ignore that being a white minority typically ends up with literal and blatant racism that never gets treated like the racism it is. I do agree that we are one of the least racist countries in the world. Japan, China, Iran, fuck. If you want a scary thought, look at Iran and the Iranian revolution and compare it to America and the alt-right movement.

I don't identify with any party but I definitely lean far more left and I do tend to 'SJW' sometimes, but I also tend to defend Republicans like you from unfair stereo types even if I disagree with the views. That should also be a part of 'social justice' in my opinion. It should include everybody, not just the golden star minorities that help further my agenda.

King Lucem Ferre said

 I think you missed my point which is that statistics don't tell the whole truth. What is the crime statistic based on? I bet it doesn't count crime it doesn't know about, or crime that doesn't get reported, or crime that doesn't get a conviction. Like the statistics on cops killing people have tons of blank spots because most areas of the country don't keep track of it. (well, at least the few years ago when I was looking these things up) I think racism is much more prevalent than you think. I've met way too many racist people. I get to hear what other white people say behind closed doors. I think Trump showed us that America has way more racists than we anticipated. We keep seeing so many examples of our system going out of it's way to hold black people back revealing themselves lately that I just can't stand by the idea that we aren't that racist. To be fair, on the other side of the spectrum, let's not ignore that being a white minority typically ends up with literal and blatant racism that never gets treated like the racism it is. I do agree that we are one of the least racist countries in the world. Japan, China, Iran, fuck. If you want a scary thought, look at Iran and the Iranian revolution and compare it to America and the alt-right movement.

I don't identify with any party but I definitely lean far more left and I do tend to 'SJW' sometimes, but I also tend to defend Republicans like you from unfair stereo types even if I disagree with the views. That should also be a part of 'social justice' in my opinion. It should include everybody, not just the golden star minorities that help further my agenda.  

I actually agree that statistics cant tell the (full) truth for reasons you already mentioned. But there are ways that good sociological studies account for these sorts of things (at least to SOME degree) to give us a general picture. It's not that I don't think racism is prevalent, it is, in all societies and aspects of life virtually. And yes Trump and his supporters showed that in America it's still very much here, but on an acute level versus overt racism (mostly)

It's the question of the actual act of discrimination. Which again I concede absolutely takes place every day America, somewhere to someone, but my argument was simply that I don't think it inhibits most peoples day to day life to the point of needing to play the hardcore victim card per say. Hopefully that makes sense without sounding insensitive to the issue, I promise I'm not. I just hold the view that more then the government has the ability to solve black peoples issues in society black people hold the power within themselves to address things within their own community, like black on black crime. Nobody, not even Hispanics come close to dying at the hands of gun violence the rate young black men do. I see it every damn day in my city. Hell, alot of them will tell you what I am saying their damn self. 

When I criticize SJWs I don't actually mean "social justice", look at New Zealand's criminal system, that's actually based on "social justice" and it's fairly progressive (the good kind of progressiveness lol)...

I am talking about outrage culture and the notion that if you can claim victim it gives you status/power, I hate that shit

SteelCityDahmer said
Can't stand on a moral high ground when you threaten violence on people who don't see eye to eye with you. I don't believe anybody on here is actually racist, they're just trying to piss you off.   

I can absolutely stand on high moral ground while threatening violence.

As I well articulated it’s not about an inability to see eye to eye. It’s recognizing what constitutes being complicit in dispicable rhetoric.

I draw a line and stick to it. A line which I drew long before Trump ever tossed his hat in the political spectrum. Hence why I rightfully stand on higher moral ground. 

Next.

If they prescribe to or are complicit in hate filled rhetoric, yes, that type of ideology deserves to be met with violence...what are like 75% of ICP tracks about again?? 🤔

Violence is an acceptable and beautiful thing when perpetrated against evil people.

I am not evil, I don’t excuse or give a pass to people that pander DIRECTLY to the KKK so....