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I don't have a candidate, so convince me to vote for yours... without mentioning other candidates.
September 7, 2016
5:28 pm
scruffy
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krunkazphuk said
I choose to keep an open mind and am less interested in public policy and more interested in the next good question. If further studies in autism point away from vaccines, great. If they point back to them, great too. Evaluating the evidence with no expectations makes an experiment an experiment. .  

so then, based on current scientific understandings, you would agree that the notion of vaccines causing autism is considerably less plausible than the notion that flossing causes toe jam…? 

 

actually, the toe jam/flosser ratio is far more alarming than the autism/vaccinated ratio.  why, if vaccines are a safety issue, flossing must be the most savagely criminal act of deceit in world history. 

this is all the governments fault. 

there oughtta be a law. 

i know all about this stuff, cuz im a mother. 

please listen to me. 

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

September 7, 2016
5:30 pm
krunk
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And back to politics, here’s a site with info on a bunch of Independent candidates you might find helpful.

http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/

Whoop whoop krunk :

Noah Fence

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September 7, 2016
5:35 pm
scruffy
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ya know, as time passes, im less and less clear about who i should be voting for.  this thread has helped muddy it up. 

might have to go with a write-in.  havent done that in a while. 

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

September 7, 2016
5:36 pm
krunk
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scruffy said

so then, based on current scientific understandings, you would agree that the notion of vaccines causing autism is considerably less plausible than the notion that flossing causes toe jam…? 

 

actually, the toe jam/flosser ratio is far more alarming than the autism/vaccinated ratio.  why, if vaccines are a safety issue, flossing must be the most savagely criminal act of deceit in world history. 

this is all the governments fault. 

there oughtta be a law. 

i know all about this stuff, cuz im a mother. 

please listen to me.   

I’d have to read the studies, and draw my own conclusions. The “cuz im a mother” and “please listen to me” arguments are as much based in critical analysis as “the science IS in” and “trust me, I’m a mod.” Based on current scientific understanding from Oxford

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/…..4/456.full

“…These studies, in concert with the biological implausibility that vaccines overwhelm a child’s immune system, have effectively dismissed the notion that vaccines cause autism. Further studies on the cause or causes of autism should focus on more-promising leads.” Here’s to the next good hypothesis, wherever it may lead.  

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September 7, 2016
5:40 pm
scruffy
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you have never heard me say ‘trust me, im a mod’.  moderators are inherently untrustworthy; i know this. 

was bein funny, only on purpose.  unlike the mccarthy mommies. 

 

but for real, the anti-vaccination thing is a fuckin crock.  and then some. 

Whoop whoop scruffy :

SPOOKYtheFUNGI, CellE2057

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

September 7, 2016
5:51 pm
krunk
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For real, thanks for telling me you were being funny. Explanations after the fact really drive home a punch-line for me. True scientists don’t even know if gravity is repeatedly provable. The scientific method is what is used to prove a hypothesis, not hearsay or declaring something to be a crock. And vaccinations may not have met their true enemy head on: Christian Scientists with their religious exemption from vaccinations. Science and religion always play so nicely together. popcorn

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September 7, 2016
6:12 pm
Slumerican502
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What about science religion and the law? Do you guys think religious parents should be held accountable when their child dies because they think praying is a feasible alternative to actual medicine? Im sure it is rare but i do remember reading about a case 5 or 6 years ago. How far are you guys religious or not willing to give them the freedom to chose for their child? As a libertarian it is a tricky one for me.

September 7, 2016
6:22 pm
Noah Fence
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krunkazphuk said
I choose to keep an open mind and am less interested in public policy and more interested in the next good question.

Right but you aren’t running for president, Jill Stein is and her statement was (or sounded like) “we can’t have vaccines because we don’t know if they cause autism or not.” 

If further studies in autism point away from vaccines, great. If they point back to them, great too. Evaluating the evidence with no expectations makes an experiment an experiment. .  

Right. I’m not saying that any study that contradicts what we know now is inherently wrong.

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

September 7, 2016
6:26 pm
scruffy
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‘i have a hypothesis, and you didnt disprove it, so that means my hypothesis isnt a crackpot whim!’ aint exactly the scientific method, either. 

dont recall anybody doin anything even close to ‘scientific’ in any of these type discussions. 

 

it aint my job to prove or disprove hypotheses.  i am not a scientist.  i am not a medical professional. 

i dont know shit about shit;  i just do things. 

based on what the medicos who get paid for this sort of thing have told me, however… its a crock and a half.  im content to go with that. 

 

Slumerican502 said   
What about science religion and the law? Do you guys think religious parents should be held accountable when their child dies because they think praying is a feasible alternative to actual medicine? Im sure it is rare but i do remember reading about a case 5 or 6 years ago. How far are you guys religious or not willing to give them the freedom to chose for their child? As a libertarian it is a tricky one for me.    

a lil tricky. 

in my opinion, an ultra-pathetic reason for a kid to die…  but the guy on my other shoulder is casually pointing out that it aint my kid, so fuck em for bein assholes. 

from a legal point of view, seems like a pretty clear cut case of neglect, to me.  sayin ‘god told me to’ dont get you out of a murder beef, or a traffic ticket, right? 

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

September 7, 2016
6:46 pm
scruffy
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leavin off of poisonous needles filled with dark, scary withcraft… 

im goin through the list of candidates that krunk posted above.  so far, the most enlightening thing about it, is that i didnt know who clinton was running with.  remember names bein thrown around, but had no idea how it worked out.  just never noted it. 

also, the list of independents and sideshows is as amusing as it always is.  gotta love some of the backgrounds.  ‘middle class citizen’.  ‘bus driver’.  ‘music lover’. 

 

course, it dont take as much effort as you might think.  in missouri, its sumn like a thousand signatures and a couple hundred bucks to get your name on the presidential ballot.  or used to be, maybe its more expensive now. 

 

fuck, i shoulda run for president. 

[reporter]:  ‘what qualifies you to be commander-in-chief?’

[scruffy]:  ‘well, i love music.’ 

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

September 7, 2016
6:54 pm
Noah Fence
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Slumerican502 said
What about science religion and the law? Do you guys think religious parents should be held accountable when their child dies because they think praying is a feasible alternative to actual medicine? Im sure it is rare but i do remember reading about a case 5 or 6 years ago. How far are you guys religious or not willing to give them the freedom to chose for their child? As a libertarian it is a tricky one for me.  

It’s not so tricky for me because I am decidedly in favor of protecting children from abuse. the only tricky part comes in is “who defines abuse”. If we’re going with strictly they died as a result of you not doing anything, then yes I do believe parents should be held accountable if it can be proven that they were neglectful. 

http://childrenshealthcare.org…..age_id=132

I’m down for religious freedom, but not at the expense of someones life. Children are not property owned by their parents, parents are responsible for the well being of children in their care. 

It only gets tricky to me when it comes to defining abuse and neglect. 

There’s a movement to end newborn male circumcision (in the US) because it is an unnecessary practice with typically zero harmful side effects. It goes wrong on occasion but it is mostly considered harmless. The practice is based on medically ignorant religious texts (initially) and behavior modification and bad science(in the US).

Is it abusive to modify someones genitals without their consent? Stated like that, absolutely. 

In parts of africa, they circumcise girls by removing part of or all of the labia and clitoris which leads to very painful experiences of sexual arousal and activity later in life. It’s a very harmful practice distinct from male circumcision which is mostly harmless.  

So is one abuse and the other not? They are both religious in some contexts. Should religious freedom protect one or the other? 

I would say they are both abusive, but it is tricky to call something that is essentially null “abuse” when worded as something that doesn’t harm and isn’t intended as harm. 

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

September 7, 2016
6:57 pm
Noah Fence
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scruffy said
fuck, i shoulda run for president. 

[reporter]:  ‘what qualifies you to be commander-in-chief?’

[scruffy]:  ‘well, i love music.’   

[reporter]: ‘a follow up, if I may. What are your plans for stimulating the economy’

[scruffy]: ‘WE GOIN TO SHANGRI LIZZZZA BITCH IT RAINS DIAMONDS’

lol

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

September 7, 2016
7:06 pm
scruffy
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i think i maybe coulda gotten over, if i had cribbed borrowed ills ‘a batman in every city’ platform. 

that was genius. 

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  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

September 8, 2016
1:13 pm
CellE2057
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Slumerican502 said
What about science religion and the law? Do you guys think religious parents should be held accountable when their child dies because they think praying is a feasible alternative to actual medicine? Im sure it is rare but i do remember reading about a case 5 or 6 years ago. How far are you guys religious or not willing to give them the freedom to chose for their child? As a libertarian it is a tricky one for me.  

It is rather tricky. I think, specifically regarding vaccines anyway, that the parents choice to not get their kid vaccinated directly affects other people, therefor it’s not a personal choice issue. Maybe lol. My right to throw a punch stops when it hits you, type of deal. At least that’s what my guts tell me. I’m also aware of the slippery slope argument, which just makes me even less sure. 

About the prayer thing, hmm…damn. I’m not sure lol. Like Rob said, it really comes down to “who defines abuse”. Which isn’t something that I pretend to be smart enough to do.

It appears I’m not much help but you’re asking something that I’m iffy about too so I want more convo about it.

 @noah-fence , the circumcision and prayer ones are the clearest examples of it but what about non extreme examples? Religious parents that prevent their children from learning about other religions for example. You could easily argue that they’re causing damage to their child in that case too. They’re preventing them from expanding their world view and thus, causing serious mental harm in the long run. It’s not as extreme as circumcision but that’s just because we tend to not recognize mental issues as being as serious as the physical ones. 

September 8, 2016
1:38 pm
Slumerican502
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Or pounding in your kids head if they are bad they are gonna roast in the lake of fire for all eternity. That is a good point there.

 

Also, if circumcision is abuse im glad i was abused. Ever see an uncircumcised dick? They look like the worms from tremors.

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Psyral Infection
September 9, 2016
1:44 am
JC
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So not to be a grammar nazi.  But hypotheses cannot be “proven,” they are supported, rejected/failed to be rejected, etc.  Proofs are for mathematics.  :)  

Like really though, I know it’s just a word and no one on here probably even thought about it or meant it all like that, but I do feel that it is an important distinction to make.  

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bayAreaShaman, Noah Fence
September 9, 2016
4:57 am
Noah Fence
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JC said
So not to be a grammar nazi.  But hypotheses cannot be “proven,” they are supported, rejected/failed to be rejected, etc.  Proofs are for mathematics.  :)  

Like really though, I know it’s just a word and no one on here probably even thought about it or meant it all like that, but I do feel that it is an important distinction to make.    

nerd. lol. 

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bayAreaShaman, JC

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

September 9, 2016
10:49 am
krunk
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JC said
So not to be a grammar nazi.  But hypotheses cannot be “proven,” they are supported, rejected/failed to be rejected, etc.  Proofs are for mathematics.  :)  

Like really though, I know it’s just a word and no one on here probably even thought about it or meant it all like that, but I do feel that it is an important distinction to make.    

I agree, and see u more as a grammar commie. smile Seems the science is never in, but just in a holding pattern until the next experiment. Hypotheses are reasoned predictions that may lead to theories, which are “tested, well-substantiated, unifying explanations for a set of verified, proven factors.” At the end of the day there are just as many questions as there were at the beginning, and if we’re lucky, there are more. Science rules, and Bill Nye sucks.

https://youtu.be/QwviDPo4Rh4?t=2m5s

YouTube DEBUNKED: Top 5 “Climate Change” Myths

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September 9, 2016
11:41 am
bayAreaShaman
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BILL!!! BILL!!!! BILL!!!

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Old Mr Dangerous

YOU KNOW THEY AINT NO SUCH THING AS LEFTOVER CRACK!!!- Leftover Crack

September 13, 2016
10:17 pm
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Nah, Bill Nye is cool. I applaud his temperament when debating Creationism. He doesn’t seem to get overly touchy, yet you can imagine he is frustrated at times… also, he is respectful and doesn’t talk down to those that probably should be talked down to. 

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