Noah Fence said

bayAreaShaman said

Chuckieboy said
Look I feel where y'all coming from and all..but really we need to end whiteness? If I feel u on the poc end then u I need to feel me here, that's fucking  stupid   

I kinda have no idea what ur talking about.

Who is trying to end whiteness?

He's responding to my comment about how to end racism. I did say end whiteness.

Chuckieboy said
Look I feel where y'all coming from and all..but really we need to end whiteness? If I feel u on the poc end then u I need to feel me here, that's fucking  stupid   

Whiteness is an idea that's passed down from generation to generation. It's not a real thing. Whiteness was created by people who didn't understand science who thought that black people and other POC were an inferior sub species of human. Wanting to defend a bad idea is why we have assholes like krunk saying "all lives matter" when they don't really mean that, as demonstrated in another thread where they were quick to exclude prisoners from "all" which made it substantially less than all.

Basically, whiteness was a mistake that people latched onto. The early birds to the White party used cultural biases and created a system called Racism which put different people below white people in a social hierarchy based on arbitrary traits. 

What is black? Is it just someone who is of a certain skin tone? What about albino africans? Is it genetic? Then how can I, a white latino, have black cousins? Or why could I, as a white latino, date a black woman who was lighter skinned than I was at the time?

These two kids are siblings. With the same parents. 

While race impacts peoples lives directly as POC, white people have a social obligation to undo their thinking of whiteness as an established fact. It isn't. Your whiteness can be taken away from you.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/20/.....e-6865432/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

And people can even try to force it on you

http://www.snopes.com/2015/08/.....haun-king/

Interestingly enough, while I was trying to find a different piece about whiteness as a social construct, I found this one:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/c.....are-white/

which talks about a minister of my faith so I'm sharing this one instead lol.

This is also interesting: http://www.bet.com/music/2017/.....tions.html

 

The thing about race is that because it's made up, it only exists in the perceptions of OTHER people. It's a reading. So when white people are all out and proud about their whiteness, what they're really saying is 'I'm not black"

Or as Ta-Nehisi Coates quotes Nell Painter in this AMAZING piece about race and donald trump, white means "I'm not a nigger".

 “Race is an idea, not a fact,” the historian Nell Irvin Painter has written, and essential to the construct of a “white race” is the idea of not being a nigger. Before Barack Obama, niggers could be manufactured out of Sister Souljahs, Willie Hortons, and Dusky Sallys. But Donald Trump arrived in the wake of something more potent—an entire nigger presidency with nigger health care, nigger climate accords, and nigger justice reform, all of which could be targeted for destruction or redemption, thus reifying the idea of being white. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/the-first-white-president-ta-nehisi-coates/537909/

So yeah, we need to end whiteness. End this wrong headed idea that white people are inherently a group of people separate from all other forms of human kind, and end this idea that whiteness is valuable or sacred. End the idea that whiteness exists, without ignoring the plight that other people have had to face because of their exclusion. Own that it was European men who were wrong about race who created and instilled racism which to this day has had disastrous consequences on people who were excluded from that club.

oh, and in that video I posted up thread how it talks about how latinos were changed from white to not white to white and back and forth. That literally has happened to my family. Interestingly enough, my family actually has been in the southern california area long enough that I have ancestors who were porn in the same building, only a few years apart, with the same parentage, who enjoyed different legal statuses and citizenship, because of perceived racial differences.   

I don't want this post to get lost at the bottom of page two. 

Words are an abstraction. There is never a definitive meaning behind the usage of a word. To put it in your realm of interests, think of all words are "if, then" statements.

Language is built in relationship to other words.

Doesn't translate to:

a body of words and the systems for their use common to a people who are of the same community or nation, the same geographical area, or the same cultural tradition 3rd person singular present indicative of to exist or livesimple past tense and past participle of to construct (especially something complex) by assembling and joining parts or materials used to indicate inclusion within space, a place, or limits used to indicate inclusion within space, a place, or limits used for expressing motion or direction toward a point, person, place, or thing approached and reached, as opposed to from additional or further a unit of language, consisting of one or more spoken sounds or their written representation, that functions as a principal carrier of meaning. Words are composed of one or more morphemes and are either the smallest units susceptible of independent use or consist of two or three such units combined under certain linking conditions, as with the loss of primary accent that distinguishes black·bird· from black· bird·. Words are usually separated by spaces in writing, and are distinguished phonologically, as by accent, in many languages the point or character (.) used to mark the end of a declarative sentence, indicate an abbreviation, etc.; full stop.

And yes, they are your fellows. They are with you when you vote for trump and they are with you when you talk about nationalism. Unless you unequivocally, to their faces, oppose them at every stop, they are your cousins and siblings, they are the nice police officers you think accidentally murder unarmed teens, and the teachers who score POC differently for the same answers on exams, and so forth. You need to go to your little nationalist forums and say 'HOLD THE FUCK UP" until you're blue in the face. 

Also, daca actually prevents people from becoming citizens, actively. It's part of the process.

krunkazphuk said

Noah Fence said
Words are an abstraction....

Ah, postmodern vomit. The gift that keeps on giving.  

Come on mensa, you should know sign and signifier are not the same.

Say the word Dog. What about the word dog is inherently canine. Oh shit, post modernism I just used two different words that mean the same thing, neither of which has any connection to reality. 

Chuckieboy said
Thanks for being real Noah and seeing where in was coming from, I thought u were pretty much saying fuck white people. Guess I'm not "whiteness" by ur definition. I'm the original white power ranger. And I have love for all of u motherfuckers, even if u want so hard to hate lol. And I'm a juggalo from a shitty part of dub v, if u think I haven't went to bat over racism ur dead wrong.  

Spend some time with those links. They'll probably help you understand whiteness to a better extent.