The closest thing would be the reverse talking in “Witch Trapped in this Song”. But that witch was only out to hurt, apparently. 

And Debbie isn’t the worst track in the world, it is leagues above Dorothy. Dorothy just has a strange chorus that doesn’t gel with me.

And yes, “Echoside” is essential for a DL Greatest Hits. They’ve even performed “Meat Cleaver” as DL live a few times. 

Just to rant, I absolutely adore the whole Dark Lotus lore. I love how they take bits of all kinds of mystical material.

Pyramids, black magic, terracotta warriors, Kung fu, real life street shit made supernatural (reminds me of Candyman sometimes), occult practices, chants, reincarnation, mental illness, addiction, despair, hope, the afterlife, insanity, witchcraft, Egyptian folklore, haunted house shit, possession, curses, supervillainy, time, lunacy, graveyards, necrophilia, blood worship, the soul, self-mutilation, sacrifice, evil, outer space, time travel… just the best shit ever. 

I’d love a new Dark Lotus album in this day and age… but it would just end up with Jamie Madrox trying to meld the new sound into some kind of surf pop cringe nu metal, with a heavy helping of Violent J complaining about his current relationship, delivered in a mush-mouthed, raspy and appalling cadence…. Monoxide will slip (not so) subliminal disses about being betrayed into a new song that’s supposed to be about a Mayan-esque apocalypse countdown… Shaggy will start drinking heavily again to deal with all the internal strife that they THOUGHT they were all over, so his rhymes will end up all wacky and off-beat… you’ll eventually have a leaked recording of him beating Blaze’s head in during a studio session due to a perceived slight… Marz and ABK will each return, but the former will be praising Jesus and Putin, while ABK just delivers mediocre rhymes that get him enough album sales for five months of beer and weed cash.

Carnivalkilla44 said

Respect the hustle.  

Dude, I love ABK… I get excited to hear him rap and all. But I’d wager that Dark Lotus did fine with just the original 5 petals. His surprise appearance in “Villainous” was awesome, however.

Grind 2 the flow.

The Warlock said
Since this is a Black Rain thread.. Mono is by far the worst/most simplistic rapper on the project..

Violent J is hands-down the best on the project..  

I thought about what you typed here, and…. I can’t say that I disagree. Having never thought too deeply about who was “the best” in all of those projects (sometimes I’d do a little comparison exercise on a song per song basis), it is glaringly apparent that YES, Violent J has the most memorable lines, the sharpest cadence, some of the top flows, and seems to overall “get” the project the most. Which makes sense, as he is likely the primary brainstormer of the thing.

Listen to J on tracks like “Heinous”, “Villainous”, “Backwards”, “That’s Me” and “The Walls”, just to start. 

It seems to me that overall, Violent J and Jamie Madrox dominated the themes and vocals. They have the more suitable voices for choruses.

I’d rank it for overall best:

1. Violent J … the master storyteller himself. Vocal changes and range. Cleverness. Can be scary and/or funny. Jaw-dropping lyrics at times

2. Blaze … sometimes just solid, but always solid. Never lackluster. His edge over Madrox is that when Blaze goes off, he GOES OFF. He displays a hell of a flow on many tracks that bodies the rest. And his voice fits this strange project, not.sure how.else to.explain it. But yes, he gels well. An integral part of the project.

3. Jamie Madrox … years ago I’d have him at #1 or #2 by default, as he has been my favorite rapper on Psychopathic. But I’ve been re-listening to all.the projects lately and just had to give Blaze the edge. Madrox has the range, skill and creativity to win, but Blaze just barely edges him out for memorability. The Top 3 are interchangeable at times, also #4, but I’m just gonna end it here.

4. Shaggy 2 Dope … I’d like to put him higher, as he has the most recognizable voice and rhyme schemes. He has a ton of passion and says interesting shit. However, and I’ve talked about this ad nauseum, the “Black Rain” project drops him down significantly. The drunkenness, the rushed and baffling lyrics, etc. He kills it so hard on every other album, so it sucks to place him so low. But it is what it is.

5. Monoxide … just what Warlock said, and I’d never really thought about Monoxide in the big picture of Dark Lotus. I am struggling to remember a great (or any) verse off the top of my head, so that is the biggest downfall: not being memorable. He’s like a watered down Blaze, like as if Blaze came in and didn’t care about his participation and just phoned it in. Nowadays, Monoxide is a beast. Imagine how much different those DL albums would be with the current Monoxide.

Since ABK and Marz were on limited projects, I can’t really rank them. But, gun to my head, I’d probably put Marz before Shaggy 2 Dope and then ABK. I hate to do that, but facts is facts. Marz fit really well on the project. His voice isn’t always for me, and he could come across as goofy and even adolescent in some rhymes, but he did very well.for the one album. ABK is perfectly serviceable, and sometimes memorable. Lots of heart and a great voice. Extra points for him making the worst DL song a tiny bit more bearable by his hilarious delivery of “cus she was deader than a doornail!”. My wife and I still say that shit like ABK to this day, it’s funny and absurd shit.

The Opaque Brotherhood was heard by me at a strange time in my life. The strangest, honestly. That impacts the uh, impact, a lot. Kind of like Mirror Mirror, Shangri-La and PFOS 2 have such distinct nostalgia. Nostalgia is a stronger force in our tastes than we like to admit. Gotta respect it, tho.

That being said, The Mud Water Air and Blood wasn’t released at any milestone type time for me, but I recognized that it was very good overall.

Black Rain was great, just rushed. No combination of nostalgia, memory or bias can change that. I still love most of it.