Old Mr Dangerous said
You can hear it in things like the remixes to "Rollin Over" and "It Rains Diamonds". J doing Shaggys parts. Not sure if they were the original versions then remixed or what, but it is weird.   

Speculation, if J wants to do a remix of an icp song then obviously he would do shaggy's verses as well.

Why does everyone have this speculation that every single ICP song is solely written by J? Even if he's the one doing the rapping on tracks, what do you think that Shaggy has always just kicked back at home, relaxing until J needs 2 Dope to do some of his rapping for him? FTFOMF, Gloomy Sunday, FFF, Flip The Rat, and everything back to the beginning, you guys REALLY think that Shaggy and J don't collaborate in coming up with the concepts, and wording, and writing for THEIR music group.

btw, there's a remix to rollin over?! :o

T.O. said

mentalcaseproject said
I'd go as far as to say J probably records the tracks initially all on his own and then Shaggy goes in and sort of raps over him and replaces those vocals with his own (wasn't this somewhat confirmed with that Alakazam track from Hell's Cellar where it sounds like J's rapping a verse meant for Shaggy?)...

To strengthen your point:

Drunk Driving (unreleased ICP & Esham)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMd-q6rv1Oc

and here's Drunk Driving but without Shaggy, instead J raps his parts

  

never heard this before lol but yeah I'm not trying to say Shaggy does NOTHING to contribute to ICP or doesn't write at all but I think when it comes to the group J does most of the heavy lifting as far as the writing and developing the concepts go...Shaggy most certainly gives his input and probably changes shit to make it sound better but there's quite a few songs where it clearly sounds like Shaggy is just reading some shit J wrote for him

I definitely believe Shaggy played a larger role on The Tempest...that album FEELS different from any other Insane Clown Posse project and just has its own unique vibe to it...Shaggy IMO outshined J on that album for sure

I know I'm late to the party, but I finally just heard FFF & holy shit, icp is in their best form since atleast '04. I didn't expect this, but it makes sense cuz those 2 tour EPs were fire as well.

It seems so obvious part of the problem was young wicked's involvement. All the elements he brought to production & choruses sounded amateur AF. 

It makes me happy that the clowns are back 🤘🤘🤘

BillBurr said
I know I'm late to the party, but I finally just heard FFF & holy shit, icp is in their best form since atleast '04. I didn't expect this, but it makes sense cuz those 2 tour EPs were fire as well.

It seems so obvious part of the problem was young wicked's involvement. All the elements he brought to production & choruses sounded amateur AF. 

It makes me happy that the clowns are back 🤘🤘🤘  

Agreed. Even though some of Wicked's production and choruses were passable.... yeah, I still wish it never happened. 

J was truly LOST during the Otis Era. But we all make mistakes. 

Still waiting on my copy, by the way. Patiently.

Same shit blyat. Well I'll get it by the end of March I guess. All I need now is to stop thinking about it

I honestly don't know why anybody would ever preorder from Hatchetgear any more. I don't recall the last time they consistently had the album in mailboxes on or before the release date of the album. Pre-ordering in general seems pointless when you can just listen to the album on a streaming service or just go and pick it up in a store without the wonder if you'll get it on time or not. 

I forget, did they offer a digital download code for those that bought the physical album? If so, then that makes it better. I did pre order an album from 311 a couple years ago because they offered exclusive behind the scenes updates and stuff during the progress of the album you wouldn't see otherwise if you didn't preorder. They also had a digital download code that was released at midnight of the release date so you still can hear the album whether or not the album arrived on time, which I actually did get it a day early. 

Chevy2Dope said
I honestly don't know why anybody would ever preorder from Hatchetgear any more. I don't recall the last time they consistently had the album in mailboxes on or before the release date of the album. Pre-ordering in general seems pointless when you can just listen to the album on a streaming service or just go and pick it up in a store without the wonder if you'll get it on time or not. 

I forget, did they offer a digital download code for those that bought the physical album? If so, then that makes it better. I did pre order an album from 311 a couple years ago because they offered exclusive behind the scenes updates and stuff during the progress of the album you wouldn't see otherwise if you didn't preorder. They also had a digital download code that was released at midnight of the release date so you still can hear the album whether or not the album arrived on time, which I actually did get it a day early.   

No digital download code.

also just to update what i said earlier, I ordered it now on amazon and it'll be arriving on Saturday already. If you have a prime membership it's only $8.99. Even if ya don't i think it's only a few bux more for shipping. 

I like it rough did not need a warning and it should have not closed out the album. Dumb decision. It could have easily been the second to last song with freedom being the closer. 

Still didn't get my pre-order....psychopathics business tactics worked once again.  And by that I mean that they totally rely on people who never pre-ordered before to pre-order...plus they know ninjas can be "insane" and continuously make a bad decision, thus making them have to buy two albums since they didn't get their pre-order by release day.  They been doing this since TMML, especially since they stopped doing "alternate/various" versions of the same album. 

I'd rather have the option to buy different variants,  rather than being duped into buying more than one of the same album....but I do like the physically going out and buying the physical album tactic,  getting rewarded for your efforts is something I can fucks with....make them lazy ass internet fucks get off their computer chair and do something physical, by giving exclusive content and artwork/bonus disc to the physical cds....let the youngins know how hard,  but rewarding things were for us old folks back in the day!

Anyways, how do I feel about this jokers card?

I'm not really sure... I've only spun it twice and one of those times(1st listen) I only considered a half a listen cuz my woman experienced it with me and chatted it up the whole time,  so I missed alot on that spin.  Most of the following is mostly based off of my 1st listen.

The intro was on psy for my expectations, it was ominous and spooky sounding and then hit the intro track red Fred.  I was completely let down by it. I was totally trying to absorb what this entity is about and this song basically had me scratching my head like WTF am I listening to. At this point my woman gave up on the album,  but I'm more open to the idea of things turning around.

My woman wanted to skip the next song since we already know it,  but I'm the type who listens to a jokers card without skips and interruptions. I enjoyed the added elements to the final version.  Next was w. Vernor ave. and by the middle of the chorus I paused the CD and shouted "are you fuckin kidding me". My woman replied "what? West burger avenue?".... I fuckin lost my marbles and went into a mad laughing fit!  She looked at me and was like WTF? To which I replied " no that's the next song" and started laughing hysterically. "I cant believe they sampled that song" I told her, and she didn't think it's that funny so I put my bowl down, blazed up a cigg and pressed play. 😂 

WTF was next and contrary to what I've heard it doesn't mean Where's The Faygo... What a dissapointment!  The song sounded way better than the "single" version,  but I still couldn't get down with it.  It's too much "all over the place" to me,  but I can see SOME of the chorus going hard live at the gathering. I get the songs purpose and totally fits well on the card but just like others in the past like Chris benoit,  I won't be spinning this record at all. 

Up next was freds version of "miracles" or "the world is yours". I'm a big fan of those other songs and "satellite" fell short for me. I totally dislike the beat,  and I usually love old skool beats like this,  and then it turned into some radio bullshit on the hook.  My woman loves all kinds of music,  mostly metal,  but she also enjoys them poppy songs on the radio too,  but she hates when icp does it...its not what she thinks off when she wants to hear some icp. Plus she been digging the fuck outta tmml found as of late and this still left a bad taste in our mouths. 

Next was seriously hilarious and my expectations for this track was to be "clowny"...like the song "get clowned" and holy fuck was I wrong.  The beat kicked on and brain couldn't grasp what's happening. I was like holy shit this is some ringmaster ole skool shit! The hook was fantastic in my opinion. Then the 2nd verse hit and at first I figured they were talking about twiztid but it became apparent they were talking about everyone who didn't March.  This obviously resonates with me since I'm a "marcher" and felt the same way. 

Next up game over and this one I'm on the fence about.  The main beat is sick and at 1st listen I was like how did they clear all these samples so far on the album,  especially these video game samples!  They will be sued if they didn't clear them,  unless they used just enuff to squeeze thru a loophole. I still don't get the point of the song,  it's a fun track and has some funny lines but I feel like I'm missing it's purpose on FFF.

One of the most anticipated songs on the album for me is next and I'm still unsure of it.  The transition from game over was slick and the main beat of night of the red rum is ringmaster reminiscent, but overall I can't remember what its about....obviously if I'm listening to it I can tell you about it,  but remembering it is vague to me,  aside from that dope ass beat.  The hook was annoying at first, especially the high pitched "die die die" but by the end of the song I was digging the hook. 

Next is the horrible song Low. I did laugh some what during this song, but overall the sample, lyrics and flow is terrible. And this sucks cuz I usually love these types of songs but this one completely missed me. 

Triplex is a song I was curious on what the title means, I assumed it was about 3 "minds" but trying to hear it without the lyrics handy, mostly the hook, is hard to grasp it's concept.  The song is not catchy at all,  more artsy.  Cool song,  but I won't be spinning it. 

Nobody's fault is another one of those tracks I usually love,  but as of right now it's just "good".  Once again the auto tune shit like "juggalo 4 life".  The lyrics ain't bad on this one tho.  Song sounds clean as fuck production wise and doesn't make me want to skip it. 

Hot head starts off weird,  beat wise but once the raps start it had my attention.  Very creepy and flows great,  but they decided to show how high they can count to 😂! After that the song falls apart for me.  Maybe this one will grow on me but right now it's forgettable...i did love them "screwing" the chant "17" at the end.

Shimmer was the track that took me by surprise.  I was assuming something "diamondy" and once the track begins you can tell its very dark.  I'm a huge sucker for pianos in a rap song and off rip I thought of Rittz's song "white Jesus" during the intro of this song...Dark, yet harmonious!  I was curious to also see if they named this year's gathering location after this track or not, so my ears were perked the fuck up,  believe dat!  This song is freds version of Vera Lee,  but doesn't disappoint like Vera Lee did! This song is my absolute favorite off FFF and the only song I can remember when I think of FFF, currently. Great spooky song about fighting back!

In my opinion the next song, freedom,  is the final song.  This is usually a track I love but it's just plain horrible.  Satellite is a better track imo but not as good of a closer as this one,  but I still can't stand this track. This is my 1st let down I've experienced on a jokers card finale song and that saddens me. 

Up next the skit before the "wickedest shit ever"...skit is good, like the intro of FFF.   I gotta say at first I felt like "I like it ruff" isn't all that bad, but once I absorbed it I agree,  this song is 100% black magic evil.  The 1st verse is meh,  nithing "too shocking", the second verse is repetitive like dark lotus "morbid", and I fucking dislike it when someone continuously repeats the 1st half of a line and changes the end words.   The 3rd verse was how I like rapping and featured some "wicked" raps.  The beat is pretty damn good and overall the song can be pleasant on the ears.  The problem I have with it is this....no body should like this song, the lyrics are why.  They are talking about fucking and killing a "runaway"!  By technicality if you like this song,  then you most likely are a pedophile...and if not the more you listen to it the more likely you will be,  so the warning skit is necessary and for those who bump this song regularly, I will not be fucking with you...say you like this song and you are now my enemy. 

After FFF I popped in flip the rat and that made me love FFF soooo much more for some reason. Although I couldn't remember anything notable from FFF,  flip just sounded like throw aways that should of been on a forgotten freshness album. They hyped up flip like it was gonna be it's own entity album,  and it's just plain trash. 

After it was all said and done I felt like I enjoyed FFF...i love tmml found but still felt like this jokers card sounded better.  The production and skits and little noises felt very near to Mike e Clark's skills and seemed to make tmml the weakest of the second deck.  But after not hearing it for a few days,  I can't think of anything notable about.  It doesn't explain 665...and I feel like as the album moves past the song fury,  Fred and flip get left in the dust.  The whole FITE back thing is stale too... On the song fury, they scream FITEBACK but any other time they say it, it sounds like fiteback....it sounds like 5 people saying it in a flat monotone sound, which is very uninspiring and stale. 

look man shaggy is violent js instrument