where did ICP ever say they were mad at twiztid for starting a label?? that line was an insult.. not a "how dare you leave and not succeed".. how does that work, on a diss track..

I seem to remember Young Wicked being signed to MNE was the main thorn in ICP's side..

The fact their stuff has a hatchetman on, has nothing to how shitty the quality is. ICP just dont know how to work with artists. If you look at Psy in its heyday, everyone who was successful, was there because of Twiztid (ABK and Blaze, mainly (Esham wasnt ever really there, was he? Lets be honest.)). I guess Twiztid attracted the artists and J (who was super imaginative and productive back then), worked his magic with them in the studio. 

If you cant attract the artists (ICP) and someone is out there doing a better job at picking their roster than you (Twiztid). Youre gonna end up with a Lyte rather than a Young Wicked or a Ouija rather than a Lex.

I think they probably have the same type of deal with their artists at MNE as they do at PSY. Im guessing this because G-Mo is always on instagram showing how hes making his own props for his videos and his MNE Videos look no different than his videos before he was signed. Lex seems to do the same thing but his style is a little less "ghetto" than G-Mo's.

But just look at the quality of artist Psy attract/pick. Blahzay Roze.... WTF is that? Winners surround themselves with driven, talented people. Losers keep their people one step behind them and surround themselves with people who have no chance of overtaking them.

Dont get me wrong. Right now, I would rather listen to new ICP than new Twiztid (something I didnt think id be saying after TMML) but when it comes to running a label, PSY hasnt moved with the times and when they try to move with the times, they dont make the most of it....

The Hatchetman thing, I think ICP have made that decision for themselves. They could slap the Psychopathic name on everything but maybe they dont want to manage releases or be responsible for a shit release, until theyve got back to some level of consistency, themselves.

I also dont ever think ive seen anything where ICP said anything about them being pissed that Twiztid started their own Label. 

I dont even know if that makes sense but I know what im saying and thats all that matters.

randy gall said
violent j all ready said it just a distrbution label Now  man nobody listens  

^This. I'd predict Ouija's next LP is the final "official" PSY release outside of ICP.

I wonder if it helps or hurts the other artists like ABK/Hoodoo/Lyte in the long run releasing their own content? In theory there's more $ to be made, but is there really any $ left in the independent music industry for artists like these? If Hoodoo releases his own album tomorrow vs releasing the same album on PSY, would the sales compare? How much will ABK realistically make off Tampon Juice? $10,000? Maybe that's even high. How much does it then cost to have merch made and do a small tour? 

Iris The Tranny juggalette said
The only people there on their own labels are Hoodoo and ABK, and even then they are always reppin the Hatchet.

When Twiztid first made MNE, J said that they were on good terms, he said that they were doing their own thing and they were still their brothers. 

But he still wanted them to rep the hatchet, that's what it was all originally about, that's where the beef started.

It wasn't because they made their own label, it was because they felt like they abandoned them with no love.

Ouija has 8 billion hatchets on him at any moment. (and if you think Trash is a label you're wrong)

Hoodoo usually reps a pendant, and when he showed off his label there was his custom hatchet (the one with his hat on) on it. 

Lyte as well is still reppin, and ALL of them are listed as still on the label.   

I don't know where you got that from. According to J the problem started because Twiztid kept giving them ultimatums. Like they wouldn't play the gathering unless they got their masters. According to Twiztid it's because J wanted to retain control over them and their brand and they refused to let J manipulate them. Which is perfectly consistent with everything you hear from people that work with J. The straw that broke the camels back is when they turned down the march and signed Young Wicked.

I tend to believe that Twiztid were sick of living in their shadow and wanted to build their own brand and take all control of their creativity and that J doesn't treat employees that well. A big thing I wanted to wait for before saying anything about the scruples of either was to see what kind of controversy comes from MNE. They've been around for about as long as Psy was when ABK and Esham left talking about how J would screw them over. Twiztid had already tried to leave at that point as well. To our understanding there is no internal beef happening at MNE. No controversies of being underpaid, ripped off, manipulated, etc. that has followed J through out most of Psy's life.

Carnivalkilla44 said

^This. I'd predict Ouija's next LP is the final "official" PSY release outside of ICP.

I wonder if it helps or hurts the other artists like ABK/Hoodoo/Lyte in the long run releasing their own content? In theory there's more $ to be made, but is there really any $ left in the independent music industry for artists like these? If Hoodoo releases his own album tomorrow vs releasing the same album on PSY, would the sales compare? How much will ABK realistically make off Tampon Juice? $10,000? Maybe that's even high. How much does it then cost to have merch made and do a small tour?   

The independent music business is actually booming with artists like Ghostemane headlining huge tours that they tend to sell out. It's actually much easier to operate with out a label because of the internet and it's actually much much smarter to do it with out a label. Of course, to retain success you have to tour, you have to merch, you have to put your eggs in other baskets because music it's self doesn't generate money. But, yeah. The question isn't if there is money for them to make independently, the question is if they have the talent or interest to do so. I don't see any of those artists creating albums good enough to pull in an independent crowd. Two of the three only have careers because they had friends in the business. IMO ABK hasn't created a great album since Dirty History and his independent ventures show that he relies on production to carry him with his lyrics being painfully formulaic and corny. Ask me about he Mudface hook game. Big Hoodoo hasn't made a full album that has hit as a juggalo classic like his contemporaries. His first album was essentially created by J and it felt way more goofy, campy and cartoony than the usual album. His next album fell into pockets of derivative mediocrity that doesn't really come off as interesting. I've never listened to Lyte's album but I gave him a pass after watching this really cringey music video where he came off as another low tier Tech N9ne imitation. Ouija has that power because he's actually creating something decent. When it comes to juggalo music and soundcloud rap the genres are a very hit or miss and he tends to hit well on both accounts. He is the epitome of the nihilistic degeneracy from $uicideboy$ or City Morgue mixing with the juvenile angst and campy horror of juggalo music.

King Lucem Ferre said

I don't know where you got that from. According to J the problem started because Twiztid kept giving them ultimatums. Like they wouldn't play the gathering unless they got their masters. According to Twiztid it's because J wanted to retain control over them and their brand and they refused to let J manipulate them. Which is perfectly consistent with everything you hear from people that work with J. The straw that broke the camels back is when they turned down the march and signed Young Wicked.

I tend to believe that Twiztid were sick of living in their shadow and wanted to build their own brand and take all control of their creativity and that J doesn't treat employees that well. A big thing I wanted to wait for before saying anything about the scruples of either was to see what kind of controversy comes from MNE. They've been around for about as long as Psy was when ABK and Esham left talking about how J would screw them over. Twiztid had already tried to leave at that point as well. To our understanding there is no internal beef happening at MNE. No controversies of being underpaid, ripped off, manipulated, etc. that has followed J through out most of Psy's life.  

"We love em... We still talk as often as we did, and they're our boys"

I left out the march because I just felt like it went without saying, but there was another interview where they REAAALLLY stressed how disappointed they were that they weren't "repping them" anymore, and how much of a big deal that was. 

And it makes perfect sense, knowing what we know now about all the bad blood you just talked about, twiztid leaving was just something that was going to happen, but at the time, they saw no reason it had to be a beef, they want control over their own shit, that's fine with all that tension it's probably best to split up, but that don't mean you have to not be a family. 

But after the saw how they seemed to leave them behind, and then turn down the march, and then alllllll the other people jumping ship, especially wicked, it all turned to shit. 

And honestly, I'm with him on a lot of that, I still love MNE, but splitting everyone down the center, not repping, that's just wrong.

You can operate separately and still be together.

anybody remember in the news letters that came from the fan club back in the day, how much they would talk shit on the readers and brag about being snakes and taking your money and stuff? It was all for jokes and entertainment but it turns out all that shit was true. Abbiss was a snake and was trying to milk juggalos, they did hella shysty shit to employees inside that office. I’m actually surprised the label has lasted as long as it has. Forging artists signatures to transfer song rights over to billy bills brother or some shit. There is no reason for violent j’s son to have publishing credits for half abk’s Discography. But that’s the kind of shit that was going on inside of psychopathic. 

By that definition every single thing posted on this forum or the internet in general is click bait. Seriously has anyone posted anything on the internet that wasn’t meant to get clicked on? That’s the dumbest shit anyone has ever posted in here and whoever created that definition is an idiot 

Psychopathic treated every single artist that wasn’t icp like shit at some point. They treated every single employee that did not grow up with violent j like shit at some point. They were controlling and violent j made sure any artist never got more publicity than icp. Remember when violent j got mad because esham got invited to some awards show in 2003 and then told esham he couldn’t go on the wicked wonka tour because icp never got invited to that awards show and he was jealous. That was his reasoning. For anyone to think psychopathic was happy Twiztid left the label is insane. Twiztid was the only artist making big profit on albums and merch which allowed psy to sign and release music from other artists that did not sell as well. They lost a huge amount of income when Twiztid left. To the point they had to close the warehouse, cut employees by more than half. Company’s that do that shit usually are heading to bankruptcy. Not saying psy is but they had to have been hurting between 2013 and now. They don’t even seem like the same company anymore. I’ve dedicated 22 years of my life to supporting psychopathic so yes I’m a little bitter to see what they have become. They could be a force in the underground instead they are just icp and the gathering. If they could no longer put on the gathering they would lose 90% of their current fan base.