From user posted comments:
https://faygoluvers.net/v5/2017.....urt-fight/

vinyllover

Comment posted on 1 month ago at 2:55 pm

The National Gang Intelligence Center was formed BY THE FBI in 2005 AT THE DIRECTION of Congress to help them deal not only with organized known gangs, but also hybrid gangs. The 2011 report IS CLEAR that Juggalos have been classified as a gang in ONLY FOUR STATES. Arizona. California. Utah. Pennsylvania. These NGIC reports are issued every two years. There were no Juggalos in the 2013 or 2015 report as the judges pointed out. Judges are also pointing out that the 2011 report is not saying anything like “Juggalos are a nationwide gang.” The 2011 report is also not a legal final directive for every state in the country on how to treat Juggalos if you see them or have to deal with them in places like divorce court. Nowhere in the 2011 NGIC report is there anything saying like, “Keep kids away from their Juggalo parents during a divorce.” What the judgement is saying is that if you think your rights have been violated, take it back to the local/state level and sue the police for violation of your rights. It looked at the sub sets and even disorganized nature of some INDEPENDENT Juggalo gangs. This and the fact they never committed serious crimes like murder or rape meant they were determined NOT to be a serious national gang threat and that is why THEY WERE NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN in 2013 or 2015.

The judges are saying, “The FBI assessed them for one year because by 2011, FOUR STATES chose to claim Juggalos were a gang. We looked at their semi disorganized, largely independent nature from other Juggalo sub groups, saw they didn’t commit serious crimes like rape or murder, made the recommendation that states deal with them how they see fit and that’s it.” That is why Juggalos were NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN. In other words that judges are saying, “the states will not be allowed the loophole of blaming the FBI. Especially if this state is not a state that legally decided Juggalos were a gang.” The judges are also saying that the states won’t be able to say, “The FBI said Juggalos were a gang in 2011. We’re going by what they said about Juggalos.” The Supreme Court has basically denied the ability in the future for the states to use this loophole and pass the buck to blame the NGIC for their shitty behaviour towards Juggalos.

The silver lining that Juggalos don’t see is that the Supreme Court has GIVEN FULL PERMISSION TO SUE THE FUCK out of the local/state police that have fucked with Juggalos and violated their rights for no reason. And that these corrupt local/state authorities will not be allowed to blame the FBI. The Supreme Court seems to be guaranteeing accountability and saying that one agency won’t be able to blame the other back and forth in court for years and that Juggalos will be able to get some restitution if they follow the correct procedure.

Lilej2
Comment posted on 21 days ago at 1:19 am

Dude you need to start posting this on as many Juggalo related sites, Facebook groups, etc. because more Juggalos (and even ICP) need to see this and stop thinking the fight is with the government and the FBI

I appreciate the kudos.

vinyllover

Comment posted on 1 month ago at 2:59 pm

Oh and by the way, does anyone remember CPN making a big deal out of this 2008 internal FBI memo where a few officers decided on their own Juggalos were a gang? And this was proof that a gang list existed?
https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2013/mar/07/fbi-reveals-why-it-labeled-insane-clown-posse-gang/
Turns out the memo was issued in Salt Lake City, Utah in 2008. This is one of the states that had enough Juggalo shit going on that they labeled Juggalos a gang. This was not a federal, nationwide document. This was a localized, internal memo confined to ONE STATE. This Salt Lake City FBI 2008 internal memo is not a federal gang list. DUH!

vinyllover

Comment posted on 1 month ago at 3:32 pm

National Gang Threat Assessment 2011 from the National Gang Intelligence Center.
https://www.npr.org/documents/JusticeandJuggalos.pdf
Also.
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/2011-national-gang-threat-assessment

There is also Juggalos: Emerging Gang Trends and Criminal Activity
Intelligence Report
15 February 2011
https://info.publicintelligence.net/NGIC-Juggalos.pdf

As said before, that Muckracker thing was an internal SALT LAKE CITY FBI internal memo reflecting the OPINION of a few agents that Juggalos were a gang in Utah. We already know Utah was one of the four states that classified Juggalos as a gang. Only four. The 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment was CLEAR on this fact. So this 2008 Salt Lake City Utah internal memo is also NOT a national gang list. The 2011 reports (well both of them) contained NO DIRECTIVE...

vinyllover
Comment posted on 1 month ago at 3:34 pm

...NO DIRECTIVE, telling states how to treat Juggalos. That is why states can’t pass the buck to the FBI for their attack on Juggalos’ rights. That is what the Supreme Court has ruled. So the Supreme Court has closed this possible loophole incase states get taken to court for violating Juggalos’ rights. So if the Supreme Court is guaranteeing that states can not pass the buck to the feds, then I say do what CPN is only suggesting now, but that Chuck Reeves suggested AT THE START OF THE YEAR IN JANUARY with his first show on CPN’s channel. TAKE THE FIGHT TO THE LOCAL/STATE LEVEL.

Robocop
Comment posted on 21 days ago at 10:09 pm

Damn u sound like the lawyer. Thanks for breaking it down for us.

vinyllover

Comment posted on 21 days ago at 9:45 am

Thanks for the props Lilej2 and Robocop. I don’t post a lot on other places. I bet you guys do. Pass the link to this faygoluvers article around to others. I also recommend people put their prejudices aside and watch Chuck Reeves break it down. All he does is let the documents speak for themselves.

vinyllover

Comment posted on 20 days ago at 2:52 pm

Chuck Reeves from October also speaks from LEGAL DOCUMENTS.

I think the ACLU took this case, which means they believed there was a legitimate First Amendment violation. They wouldn't have taken the case otherwise. I am going to take their word over that of CPN, Joe Bruce, Paul, or Chuck.

How about you take the words of the panel of judges who threw the case out a second time? All the points they made are in that leaked courtroom audio. It's in the first Chuck Reeves video I linked up. All he did was play the whole thing and occasionally stop it to translate the legalese into common lay English. My summaries of the judges' final decision is correct. The NGIC 2011 report contained NO DIRECTIVE on how state and local cops were to treat Juggalos. So the NGIC/FBI violated nobody's rights.

I think many police departments, prisons, etc looked at the assessment, became more aware of how many weirdos were wearing ICP shirts in their city, and freaked out, setting their own directives.

That's why the panel of judges threw the lawsuit out A SECOND TIME. You have to take the fight where it really belongs. To the state and local cops. And if they violate your constitutional rights, hit them with a section 1983 lawsuit as one of the judges recommended. The judge even said these local authorities will NOT be able to blame the FBI saying, "The FBI called them a gang." The judge who spoke the most in that audio basically said no the NGIC report merely POINTED OUT in clear English how FOUR STATES classified Juggalos as a loosely dis-organized hybrid gang due to their minor criminal activity and independent subsets. So the cops can't blame the FBI for creating some gang label that was ALREADY PUT IN PLACE by 4 different states INDEPENDENTLY. Therefore, since the judges have DENIED this "pass the buck to the FBI" scam from being used in the future, it's time to hit the state and local authorities where it hurts. The fight is NOT with the FBI. The courts have determined that. If a judge is telling Juggalos who to sue and how to do it, MAYBE JUGGALOS SHOULD LISTEN, CELEBRATE AND THEN DO IT! Despite the march being based on a false premise, there is still hope for wronged Juggalos who truly have had their constitutional rights violated. They can get restitution if they do it in the right way!

I don't support Twiztid because I don't like the direction their music is going.

Fair enough. That's not the same as hating Twiztid because of a couple of false premises.