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So if Juggalos will never forgive or support Twiztid again...
January 24, 2018
9:31 am
krunk
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vinyllover said
I hate seeing this division in the juggalo world. I see it as unnecessary and resting on the false premises…

Maybe the division existed before Twiztid left Psy and just had another form. Psyral & I brought a party guy to an ICP show and he thinks some Juggalos are a cult. The division might be as simple as human nature and tribal mentality, with some Juggalos needing a leader and some steering their own lives. I’ll take good ideas wherever they come from (ICP, Twiztid, or even CNN… not holding my breath on that last one, though.) Also, why would Juggalos be immune to a civil war when America and Europe seem immersed in a cultural one? We’re not special, we’re just clowns who know how to end you & make it look like a bloody accident.

ninja

Whoop whoop krunk :

SPOOKYtheFUNGI, bozodklown

Hot.gif

January 24, 2018
10:21 am
Noah Fence
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vinyllover said
What are your reasons? Be honest. Is it the same reason CPN has? Is it really because of the march? Who thinks CPN and Joe Bruce are more correct about this whole FBI debacle as opposed to Twiztid and Chuck Reeves? If it is the march and the prior alleged “gang list”, can anybody fill me in? I’m having a hard time understanding why the hate for Twiztid continues. Especially since it appears CPN and Joe Bruce don’t have a damn clue as to what’s really going on. Sadly, their false and ignorant proclamations appear to be good enough for other Juggalos to not do their own research and read government documents themselves to see the mistakes of CPN and Joe Bruce. So they blackball or write off Twiztid for the wrong reasons.  

Lots of Juggalos don’t think twiztid need to be forgiven and support everything they do. We are not a monolith and talking about us as a monolith only furthers to pester and aggravate parts of the community.

I have zero idea what cpn says and really don’t care. Twiztid made choices about their financial state. If a Juggalo is hurt by that, that’s some weird obsessive shit.

If a Juggalo is hurt by them not being at the March, that is a valid complaint. But then are you also hurt by tech not being there? What about non Juggalo acts? Where does the responsibility end?

I think the FBI gang list shit is somewhere in the middle. Twiztid saying it’s not a list it’s an assessment is plain idiocy but the reality of the list is that it won’t directly affect most people. What will happen is it will be used to justify behaviors. That’s how profiling works. 

J’s speech at the March was embarrassing. 

I said ages ago it doesn’t make sense to go after the fbi. They needed to sue the individuals who used the list to justify their actions and let a court rule that the list was responsible AND THEN sue the fbi.

If you really believed that all lives matter we wouldn't need to say black lives matter

January 24, 2018
10:44 am
vinyllover
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If a Juggalo is hurt by them not being at the March, that is a valid complaint.

As my posts show, I disagree it is a valid complaint because the march is based on a false understanding of the NGIC report, what it means, and how little responsibility the FBI actually has since it was local and state authorities calling Juggalos a gang and apparently violating their rights in divorce cases, custody battles, hiring practicies, etc. So since you and I disagree, let’s have it out. Go over all the things I posted and show me where my mis-steps are.Let’s have an open and honest debate Because as of now, I see no reason to budge my opinion.

I think the FBI gang list shit is somewhere in the middle. Twiztid saying it’s not a list it’s an assessment is plain idiocy

Again, why is it idiocy? Why do you disagree with the things I have said back on page one, especially this post? Go back over it all and let’s get it all out on the table…

January 24, 2018
1:16 pm
Pigg
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The problem is LAW ENFORCEMENT seemed to share that false understanding.

Whoop whoop Pigg :

Radam
January 24, 2018
6:39 pm
Gorey Corey
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i don’t pretend to understand why juggalos don’t like twiztid anymore i can only assume it’s because they are not into their music anymore, they probably feel it’s watered down or something. same way i feel icp’s music is watered down so i don’t fuck with them anymore. i can definitely rule out they are only hating twiztid bc of cpn bc that’s just stupid as fuck and i’d like to think juggalos think for themselves not follow some nobody. violent j’s opinion might have more pull but once again giving juggalos some credit and gonna stick with them making up their own minds and deciding twiztid aint for them anymore. monoxide said in a brunch in bake that they will be returning to the wicked shit and admitted that they have strayed so maybe juggalos will start diggin their shit again. hopefully.

oh and to the OP you should stop posting all the links and documents and shit so much (like all the time) bc i’m not reading or watching these videos it actually hurts your case and i’m not gonna sift through a whole thread trying to find YOUR personal opinion and not just who you agree with this week. just saying. i value your opinion but please state YOUR opinion and leave off all the rest.

if FFF is dope as fuck i’ll be fucking with icp again until then my ears are open but haven’t truly been sold on em again like i was in the late 90’s. Phantom extra spooky was cool but i think mostly for the samples they used. i love twiztid bc i love their music and on the off chance i watch a brunch and bake or radio aaf which really aint all that often i have a good time and am thoroughly entertained. those are my reasons for where i stand with these two groups. and give juggs the benefit of the doubt and say they picked their sides the same way i did.  

January 24, 2018
6:42 pm
hippiekush
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They’ll be cool again if they made up with esham they can make up with twiztid 

January 24, 2018
6:55 pm
Gorey Corey
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yeah i’m hoping they’ll do that soon bc i’m fiendin for some new lotus and a new rydas with the og cast and new members from both camps. high hopes high hopes.

January 24, 2018
7:29 pm
vinyllover
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i can definitely rule out they are only hating twiztid bc of cpn bc that’s just stupid as fuck and i’d like to think juggalos think for themselves not follow some nobody.

Some of them don’t. Some of them keep hating Twiztid just because of the same reasons CPN does. I’ve seen the comments in his videos on youtube. Which tells me they are NOT thinking for themselves. Because I don’t see how anyone can read and listen to all the same stuff I have, and come to the same conclusions. That’s why I want people who hate Twiztid for the march and this supposed gang list to convince me that I made a mistake somewhere. Example: DCFaygoGuy comes to mind. He also hates Twiztid for allegedly dogging and trashing the  march and their views on the “gang list.” Time stamp provided. Just hit play.

I don’t see him pouring over all those documents and putting them up in his anti Twiztid videos and having an informed opinion. He is not thinking deep enough about the issue and doing enough research. That’s the problem I have. People thinking they know what they’re talking about based on not even a cursory glance at any government agency report or court transcript for example.

oh and to the OP you should stop posting all the links and documents and shit so much (like all the time) bc i’m not reading or watching these videos it actually hurts your case

Um, no. Government documents and paper trials are exactly what a person needs to bolster their belief about anything concerning legal matters.

i’m not gonna sift through a whole thread trying to find YOUR personal opinion and not just who you agree with this week. just saying. i value your opinion but please state YOUR opinion and leave off all the rest.

I have stated my opinion. All my words on page 1 are based off of all the government documentation I could find. If someone who hates Twiztid because of the march and the supposed “gang list” wants to change my mind, then go ahead. Otherwise, it is THEY who are misinformed and are hating Twiztid for the wrong reasons. And they may not even like CPN. They may just hate Twiztid for the same two reasons by coincidence. I’m not saying that’s impossible.

i love twiztid bc i love their music and on the off chance i watch a brunch and bake or radio aaf which really aint all that often i have a good time and am thoroughly entertained. those are my reasons for where i stand with these two groups.

Clearly you’re someone who just don’t give a fuck and that’s cool. Stick with Twiztid and their music. Guys like you ain’t in my sights then. I’m only challenging the others who hate Twiztid for the two CPN-style reasons to change my opinion and to do it based on facts. Whether a person came to their opinion because of CPN or in spite of him…whatever. My main point has not changed since page one.

I hate seeing this division in the juggalo world. I see it as unnecessary and resting on the false premises that Twiztid betrayed Juggalos not marching and that they are apparently denying some spooky bugaboo “gang list” to cover their ass. By correcting these false premises, by calling out ignorant youtubers like CPN for spreading misinformation, and by getting Juggalos to reassess their CPN/Joe Bruce influenced beliefs, perhaps some healing and reconciliation can begin. Not just between the divided fans, but perhaps Twiztid and ICP as well.

January 24, 2018
8:51 pm
Gorey Corey
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show of hands who here on the forum watches cpn, chuck or this other guy that was just posted whenever they drop a video?

January 24, 2018
9:01 pm
Radam
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Some Juggalos who have been fans of ICP and Psychopathic Records for a long time even before Twiztid existed were disappointed to see a lack of support for the March from artists that owe a big part of their career to the support from Juggalos and Psychopathic Records.

The March was a chance for a lot of artists that have a Juggalo fan base to show their appreciation for Juggalos on a human rights issue that has been proven to of effected some Juggalos. Actions speak louder than words.

Here’s proof of one incident:

The reports of Twiztid not willing to play at the Gathering unless their list of demands were met didn’t help.

The situation with Young Wicked didn’t help.

The final nail in the coffin for a lot of Juggalos was the shitty attitude and hate that was spewed by Madrox that was recorded at a meet and greet because of how inaccurate the criticisms were, but mostly because of the ungrateful attitude for people who did so much to help their career and support them for around 20 years until they signed Young Wicked which was the final draw for Psychopathic.

You may not agree with those reasons, but it’s very disappointing for many long time Juggalos who feel they are missing out on things they love like Dark Lotus and other collaborations with ICP and Twiztid.

January 24, 2018
9:08 pm
vinyllover
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http://www.aclumich.org/articl…..-goals  

Clip:

The Feds Admit that Juggalos Aren’t Gang Members 

Although the FBI refused to issue a statement to local police to counter the suggestion in the 2011 gang report that Juggalos were gang members, its attorneys repeatedly and clearly made the point throughout the litigation. From the very beginning, the FBI’s lawyers said that “only certain subsets of Juggalos were engaged in criminal activity,” not all Juggalos. Again on appeal, the government said that only “a small number of Juggalos are” engaging in gang-like activity. After we won the first appeal, the government insisted in its second motion to dismiss that “the report does not label the entire group or everyone associated with it as a criminal,” just a small number of people.

They aren’t lying when they say this. And if local/state cops in other states treated Juggalos like that, that is THEIR fault, and NOT the FBI’s fault of some dumb cops; these foolish police decided they need to start treating all Juggalos as suspects even though there is no clause in the 2011 NGIC report saying that needs to be done. You can’t blame the FBI for stupid cops who read things in the report that are NOT THERE. Again, that is why the judges dismissed the suit against the FBI the second time and said, “Next time, take your fight to places X and Y, not Z.”

January 24, 2018
9:12 pm
scruffy
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what in the hell are you tryin to accomplish with this dramamongering?  

  

[edit]  

oh, change your mind about how we are morons, didja?  

Whoop whoop scruffy :

SPOOKYtheFUNGI

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

January 24, 2018
9:23 pm
vinyllover
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Radam said

Here’s proof of one incident:

She didn’t get fired for being a Juggalo. Her being a Juggalo was known for years by her superiors. She got fired because she was warned that soon, for the first time, at a certain point in her career as a PO, criminals gang members who united under the banner of being Juggalos were going to be dealing with her in her office.Her parolees needed to be kept in the dark about her being a fellow Juggalo lest they try to use this bond to their benefit.  She could not be advertising she was a Juggalo so they could see it and try to use that to get special treatment.  That’s called familiarity and it’s not something to be desired. She didn’t listen to her superiors who told her to take certain measures that would ensure she would keep her job and that ex prisoners wouldn’t try to sweet talk her and persuade her to do favours for them as fellow Juggalos. She didn’t listen to her bosses, and her actions scared her superiors into thinking she may not be able to be impartial. It’s her fault. This was already covered.

  

January 24, 2018
9:24 pm
Gorey Corey
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Radam said

You may not agree with those reasons, but it’s very disappointing for many long time Juggalos who feel they are missing out on things they love like Dark Lotus and other collaborations with ICP and Twiztid.  

it is disappointing for a long time juggalo that lotus won’t be happening anymore but twiztid was down for it, they were cancelled from the dark lotus performance and gatherings not by choice but from icp bc they didn’t believe in doing the march. it’s not that they don’t appreciate juggalos its that they have their own beliefs as well and sticking to their guns is good in my book.

January 24, 2018
9:25 pm
vinyllover
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The final nail in the coffin for a lot of Juggalos was the shitty attitude and hate that was spewed by Madrox that was recorded at a meet and greet because of how inaccurate the criticisms were

They said there is no “gang list.” I agree for reasons already stated going back to page one; especially this post

January 24, 2018
9:46 pm
Bonesaw Wizardstick
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vinyllover said
ICP is still bitter about masters? They need to get the fuck over it. I’m gonna have to agree with Chuck Reeves on that issue. ICP dropped the ball. Their failure to keep Twiztid albums repressed in physical form and available for download on the internet does not mean Twiztid should just sit back and take that shit. They had every fucking moral right to get as many of their masters as they could. Thanks to them, I was able to buy their shit on vinyl. Which is dope! I guarantee you Psychopathic would never have done that with Twiztid stuff. Not even if things were still cool. The proof? ICP is still taking a lot of time to put out THEIR shit on vinyl. Nevermind any other artist on Psychopathic Records, old or new!

Time stamp provided. Just hit play. jump to 1 hour and 48 minutes and watch until 1 hour 54 minutes.

  

You watched through 2 hours of bologna sauce to “prove” this to me?  Fuck outta here, lol.  It’s weird that you just kinda know or quickly find all of these timestamps in long ass videos with vague titles.

As far as the masters, I’ll offer up the example of the First Six box set.  How did ICP get their masters back to be able to sell something dope?  They bought out the contracts legally instead of giving out metaphorical titty twisters.

vinyllover said
The proof? ICP is still taking a lot of time to put out THEIR shit on vinyl. Nevermind any other artist on Psychopathic Records, old or new!

That isn’t proof.  You dipshit.

Pigg said
I think it’s weird that you call J, Joe, but Paul and Jamie get to keep their psuedonyms.

I’ma start referring to CPN as Jeremy

January 24, 2018
10:13 pm
vinyllover
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You watched through 2 hours of bologna sauce to “prove” this to me? Fuck outta here, lol.

The video is actually over four hours.

It’s weird that you just kinda know or quickly find all of these timestamps in long ass videos with vague titles.

I watch these guys because a lot of Juggalos get their “facts” from these guys and CPN’s “facts” about the march and the list bear no resemblance to reality as far as I can gather. I.E. My posts on page one.

Secondly, the undeniable facts of

1. Twiztid’s albums being out of print and not available on the internet because of Psychopathic Records being a failure and not having the money or time to do it

2. That Twiztid had to be the ones who re-release their own shit and even do it on vinyl for the Juggalos

3. The fact that ICP even before the major beef when Twiztid was on Majik Ninja STILL DIDN’T put out Twiztid albums they had the masters to – not even on vinyl

is in fact proof of their failure as a company to keep Twiztid product out there. Hence Twiztid DID have the right to say, “Give us a master or we aren’t doing this.” What’s Twiztid supposed to do? Let Joe Bruce be a fucking hapless tyrant who keeps Twiztid shit on lockdown? Get real. You don’t even have a counter argument to this. You claim I’m wrong but don’t take time to explain why. You call what Twiztid did a “metaphorical titty twister” as if that actually means or proves something. LOL.

The reason I know these videos well and keep these time stamps in my mind is because I am sick and fucking tired of Juggalos just believing everything CPN and Joe Bruce also happen to say. Twiztid is bad for wanting their masters and that’s the end of it. Well, not really, jackass. Look around. Do some reading. Do some listening. Do some research. And in the case of the march and the so called “gang list”, do some research. Dig up some documents.

You guys got anything else? You have clearly lost the issue of Twiztid and their masters. Why not get back to the real meat and potatoes? Wanna at least tackle my arguments from page one about why Twiztid and Chuck Reeves are not wrong about march and the NGIC report? Does anybody want to show me where I fucked up on that? Because so far it has been two pages and nobody has proven me wrong. Maybe because they can’t. Like I said, I do this because I want to know what’s going on, and I want juggalos to know what’s going on as best they can. They shouldn’t hate Twiztid for the wrong reasons. Be smart and well read about it.

January 24, 2018
10:29 pm
scruffy
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yack.  

  awfully paranoid, arent you?   

January 24, 2018
10:38 pm
Bonesaw Wizardstick
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Bonesaw Wizardstick said

As far as the masters, I’ll offer up the example of the First Six box set.  How did ICP get their masters back to be able to sell something dope?  They bought out the contracts legally instead of giving out metaphorical titty twisters.

No reply on that, huh?  K.

vinyllover said

1. Twiztid’s albums being out of print and not available on the internet because of Psychopathic Records being a failure and not having the money or time to do it

10 Twiztid albums for sale on Psychopathic Merch at this particular second.

vinyllover said

2. That Twiztid had to be the ones who re-release their own shit and even do it on vinyl for the Juggalos

See above.

vinyllover said

3. The fact that ICP even before the major beef when Twiztid was on Majik Ninja STILL DIDN’T put out Twiztid albums they had the masters to – not even on vinyl

So?

vinyllover said

is in fact proof of their failure as a company to keep Twiztid product out there. Hence Twiztid DID have the right to say, “Give us a master or we aren’t doing this.” What’s Twiztid supposed to do? Let Joe Bruce be a fucking hapless tyrant who keeps Twiztid shit on lockdown? Get real. You don’t even have a counter argument to this. You claim I’m wrong but don’t take time to explain why. You call what Twiztid did a “metaphorical titty twister” as if that actually means or proves something. LOL.

I’m still a fan of Twiztid.  I’ve bought every MNE release so far aside from Android Filfteen because I already bought it digitally.  And what are they supposed to do?  Well J allegedly told them that they could sell their stuff as long as they kept the hatchetman on it which is sensible since that’s who owns it.  I’m saying that they could have got the masters and/or sold their stuff in a more civil manner.

vinyllover said

The reason I know these videos well and keep these time stamps in my mind is because I am sick and fucking tired of Juggalos just believing everything CPN and Joe Bruce also happen to say. Twiztid is bad for wanting their masters and that’s the end of it. Well, not really, jackass. Look around. Do some reading. Do some listening. Do some research. And in the case of the march and the so called “gang list”, do some research. Dig up some documents.

“Maaaan, Pepsi is so bad for you.  So I’m going to drink Coke instead.”  You should do some research about what I said about Twiztid’s opinion of the march.  They have a search feature on here for threads.  I have said several times that I don’t care that they marched and that I respect that they said why they weren’t doing it.  2 minute video, but they said why.  And I defended Madrox for his comments that he made when some asshat recorded him from his pocket at a meet and greet.  Because he said why they did what they did.

vinyllover said

You guys got anything else? You have clearly lost the issue of Twiztid and their masters. Why not get back to the real meat and potatoes? Wanna at least tackle my arguments from page one about why Twiztid and Chuck Reeves are not wrong about march and the NGIC report? Does anybody want to show me where I fucked up on that? Because so far it has been two pages and nobody has proven me wrong. Maybe because they can’t. Like I said, I do this because I want to know what’s going on, and I want juggalos to know what’s going on as best they can. They shouldn’t hate Twiztid for the wrong reasons. Be smart and well read about it.  

Right, or I could just buy and listen to what I think sounds good.  Twiztid didn’t do anything that would require me to “forgive” them.  The US Army let Shaggy’s daughters join, so I think they’re good on the gang designation for the time being.  I didn’t say you fucked up on your “facts,” but I also don’t give a shit if you didn’t.  Ain’t nobody got time for that.  I’m a draftsman and a music fan.  Other things better occupy my free time.

January 24, 2018
10:47 pm
vinyllover
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10 Twiztid albums for sale on Psychopathic Merch at this particular second.

That Reeves debate was from last January and he was talking about times even prior to that when a lot of Twiztid shit was not available “due to failures in the Psychopathic front office.” So you’re not even talking about the time that is relevant to the debate. Fail.

2. That Twiztid had to be the ones who re-release their own shit and even do it on vinyl for the Juggalos

See above.

http://psychopathicmerch.com/s…..logid=4023
Notice that all of the albums they are selling are the ones they have the masters to. I don’t see any Twiztid albums for sale that Twiztid had masters for. Meaning they obviously did run out a long time ago and did not have them repressed. So Chuck Reeves is correct and you are missing the point.

I’m saying that they could have got the masters and/or sold their stuff in a more civil manner.

I see nothing wrong with how and why they did it. I don’t know what you’re seeing that I’m not.

I don’t care that they marched and that I respect that they said why they weren’t doing it

They said it was a publicity stunt for a band and that was it. I didn’t hear them say anything in the vein of myself and Chuck Reeves how even the lawsuit was bullshit. I did however hear their opinion on the supposed “gang list” and it’s implications.

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