Someone who claims Muslims commit disproportionate crime can't use a study that doesn't mention WHO is doing the crime since his argument is about the WHO that is doing that WHAT.

Therefore

someone who claims Muslims are NOT committing disproportionate crime ALSO can't use a study that doesn't mention WHO is doing the crime since his argument is about the WHO that is doing that WHAT.

This should be obvious. That is why I used the 2005 study from Sweden. Not because I was stupid enough to think that it was current, but to show the METHODOLOGY and how it took into account what it needed to take into account. But hey, if an added benefit is that it can shine a light on disproportionate Muslim crime back then as well, hey, I'll gladly take that victory.

Now did some studies leak out post 2005 that DID take note of the religion or ethnicity of the perpetrators? Did we have some post 2005 studies that mention the WHO? The answer is YES. And I posted MANY of them in that old topic.

That's the difference here.

Now consider how you're saying of the 2005 studies, "Those aren't current." Now what is your next step? Are you maintaining that even back then, those stats were somehow wrong about disproportionate Muslim rape? OR...are you admitting that disproportionate Muslim crime happened back then, but not necessarily now (which would be a correct thing to say since it doesn't logically follow that disproportionate crime HAS to or MUST continue into the future years from now). Because if you're going to admit that disproportionate Muslim crime happened years ago, this means one thing: That the people who claimed in 2005 back then that those studies back then were flawed, were in fact INCORRECT! Now I'm sure THAT would be a kick in the pants to some people.

This brings us back full circle to the original problem of today. Studies NOT taking into account the background of the WHO that is doing the crime. Studies that don't have that detail can't be used for either side in a debate. If you want to talk about the WHO, then the WHO actually needs to be in the study. Again, this is basic.

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12 Days Till 🎅⏰

vinyllover said
Someone who claims Muslims commit disproportionate crime can't use a study that doesn't mention WHO is doing the crime since his argument is about the WHO that is doing that WHAT.

Therefore

someone who claims Muslims are NOT committing disproportionate crime ALSO can't use a study that doesn't mention WHO is doing the crime since his argument is about the WHO that is doing that WHAT.

This should be obvious. That is why I used the 2005 study from Sweden. Not because I was stupid enough to think that it was current, but to show the METHODOLOGY and how it took into account what it needed to take into account. But hey, if an added benefit is that it can shine a light on disproportionate Muslim crime back then as well, hey, I'll gladly take that victory.

Now did some studies leak out post 2005 that DID take note of the religion or ethnicity of the perpetrators? Did we have some post 2005 studies that mention the WHO? The answer is YES. And I posted MANY of them in that old topic.

That's the difference here.

Now consider how you're saying of the 2005 studies, "Those aren't current." Now what is your next step? Are you maintaining that even back then, those stats were somehow wrong about disproportionate Muslim rape? OR...are you admitting that disproportionate Muslim crime happened back then, but not necessarily now (which would be a correct thing to say since it doesn't logically follow that disproportionate crime HAS to or MUST continue into the future years from now). Because if you're going to admit that disproportionate Muslim crime happened years ago, this means one thing: That the people who claimed in 2005 back then that those studies back then were flawed, were in fact INCORRECT! Now I'm sure THAT would be a kick in the pants to some people.
This brings us back full circle to the original problem of today. Studies NOT taking into account the background of the WHO that is doing the crime. Studies that don't have that detail can't be used for either side in a debate. If you want to talk about the WHO, then the WHO actually needs to be in the study. Again, this is basic.  

I probably didn't check because 2005 is irrelevant and I obviously didn't address it but the statistics say migrant, not Muslim. If the statistic specifically says Muslim anywhere point it out other wise the rant about the WHO is totally irrelevant.

If it doesn't specifically point out Muslim over migrant then it's another piece of evidence of dishonest argument.

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The ones I saw from Breitbart were false.

https://faygoluvers.net/v5/forum/politics/muslim-immigrant-crime-stats-that-liberals-ignore-as-they-betray-females/#p246147

I debunked this one (which isn’t about Muslims committing rape).

You did no such thing. I already went through this with you. Even if mere groping was reported as rape, it's still a sexual assault and it's still being committed majority by immigrants at a disproportionate level. You're basically giving me the argument that migrants behave at a worse rate. And you still don't get it. Here is something from that link you DIDN'T want to see. That you closed your eyes to on purpose:

Foreigners overrepresented

Since 2000, there has only been one research report on immigrant crime. It was done in 2006 by Ann-Christine Hjelm from Karlstads University.

It emerged that in 2002, 85% of those sentenced to at least two years in prison for rape in Svea Hovrätt, a court of appeals, were foreign born or second-generation immigrants.

A 1996 report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention reached the conclusion that immigrants from North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia) were 23 times as likely to commit rape as Swedish men. The figures for men from Iraq, Bulgaria and Romania were, respectively, 20, 18 and 18. Men from the rest of Africa were 16 times more prone to commit rape; and men from Iran, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia, 10 times as prone as Swedish men.

Gang rapes

A new trend reached Sweden with full force over the past few decades: gang rape — virtually unknown before in Swedish criminal history. The number of gang rapes increased spectacularly between 1995 and 2006. Since then no studies of them have been undertaken.

One of the worst cases occurred in 2012, when a 30-year old woman was raped by eight men in a housing project for asylum seekers, in the small town of Mariannelund. The woman was an acquaintance of a man from Afghanistan who had lived in Sweden for a number of years. He invited her to go out with him. She obliged. The Afghan man took her to a refugee housing project and left her defenseless. During the night, she was raped repeatedly by the asylum seekers and when her “friend” returned, he raped her too. The following morning she managed to call the police. Sweden’s public prosecutor has called the incident “the worst crime of rape in Swedish criminal history.”

Seven of the men were sentenced to between 4.5 and 6.5 years in prison. Prison time is usually reduced by a third, so it won’t be long before the men will be ready for new assaults — presumably on infidel women.

In cases of gang rape, culprits and victims are most often young and in almost every case, the perpetrators are of immigrant background, mostly from Muslim countries. In an astounding number of cases, the Swedish courts have demonstrated sympathy for the rapists. Several times the courts have acquitted suspects who have claimed that the girl wanted sex with six, seven or eight men.

One striking incident occurred in 2013, in the Stockholm suburb of Tensta. A 15-year-old girl was locked up while six men of foreign extraction had sex with her. The lower court convicted the six men but the court of appeals acquitted them because no violence had occurred, and because the court determined that the girl “had not been in a defenseless position.”

This month, all major Swedish media reported on a brutal gang rape on board the Finnish Ferry Amorella, running between Stockholm and Åbo in Finland. Big headlines told the readers that the perpetrators were Swedish:

“Several Swedish Men Suspected of Rape on the Finland Ferry” (Dagens Nyheter).
“Six Swedish Men Raped Woman in Cabin” (Aftonbladet).
“Six Swedes Arrested for Rape on Ferry” (Expressen).
“Eight Swedes Suspected of Rape on Ferry” (TT – the Swedish News Agency).

On closer inspection, it turned out that seven of the eight suspects were Somalis and one was Iraqi. None of them had Swedish citizenship, so they were not even Swedish in that sense. According to witnesses, the group of men had been scouring the ferry looking for sex. The police released four of them (but they are still suspects) whereas four (all Somalis) remain in custody.

Now let's deal with your second link that you claim you REFUTED:
https://faygoluvers.net/v5/forum/politics/muslim-immigrant-crime-stats-that-liberals-ignore-as-they-betray-females/#p246148
That's the Norway one. What were you LOATHE to quote? Let's see.

In Oslo all sexual assaults (i.e assault rape committed under violence) involving rape in the past year has been committed by males of non-western background. This was the conclusion of a police report published today. This means that in every single rape assault in the last five years, where the rapist could be identified, he was a man of foreign origin.

The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city – May 2011 report) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while 38.2 were Norweigan citizens (foreign and national), 2.3% American, and 13.7% other European (foreign and national Europeans).

Disproportionate Muslims once and Africans once again. WHAT YOU QUOTED was a politically correct statement designed to mitigate the statistical facts. Notice that IT DID NOT CONTEST DISPROPORTIONATE MUSLIM RAPE!

The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.

Poor whites don't rape. Poor blacks and browns don't rape. Funny how disproportionately it's Muslims that do it. "Oh if only we gave them enough time to assimilate then they wouldn't have raped." What hogwash! Shame on you for being so anti woman!

Let's go to the third link you have a problem with.
https://faygoluvers.net/v5/forum/politics/muslim-immigrant-crime-stats-that-liberals-ignore-as-they-betray-females/#p246151
I know why you don't like this source. Why else would you want to confront a source post 2005 which has such damning statements as:

NARRATOR: “100 percent of assault rape between strangers were committed by immigrant non-western males, and 9 out of 10 of their victims were native Norwegian women. Some blonde Norwegian women have reportedly begun dying their hair black and many travel only in groups.”

NARRATOR: Kristen Spitznogle is a Norwegian therapist who has counseled some of the rape victims. She has been attacked in the medial for saying what many will not, that the rape problem is primarily Muslim men raping non-Muslim women and any woman who does not dress modestly and wear the Muslim headscarf could be considered by some Muslim men as fair game.

This is THE OPPOSITE OF A DEBUNKING of the claim that Muslim migrants rape at a disproportionate level. It's LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE OF A DEBUNKING. It's what's called a confirmation. Please consult a dictionary.

Now let's look at your fourth and final link you have a problem with.
https://faygoluvers.net/v5/forum/politics/muslim-immigrant-crime-stats-that-liberals-ignore-as-they-betray-females/#p246153
You engage in an ad hominem fallacy. "You cited infowars, dude?" Come on! You shoot the messenger so you don't have to discuss the message. You committed a fallacy. Of course you don't like an article with such damning parts as this:

DENMARK

Crime rates broken down by nationality in Denmark show that individuals from Muslim countries make up eight of the top nine places on the list. In addition, 2012 figures show that Somalis were sentenced for crimes, including innumerable sexual assaults, almost ten times more often than those with Danish citizenship.

Indeed, more than half of all convicted rapists in Denmark have an immigrant background, according to official statistics, despite the fact that immigrants and their descendants account for less than 10 per cent of the population. “Iraqis, Iranians, Turks and Somalis are dramatically overrepresented among convicted rapists in Denmark,” reports BT.dk.

&

“77.6 percent of the country’s rapists are identified as “foreigners” (and that’s significant because in Sweden, “foreigner” is generally synonymous with “immigrant from Muslim country”), writes Selwyn Duke. “And even this likely understates the issue, since the Swedish government — in an effort to obscure the problem — records second-generation Muslim perpetrators simply as “Swedes.”

Gotta virtue signal for Muslim rapists I guess.
&

MUSLIM GANGS TAKE CONTROL OF 55 ZONES IN SWEDEN

Last year, Swedish police also released a list of 55 “no go zones,” mostly Muslim ghettos, where law enforcement and ambulance workers are at risk of violent attack. In 2013, Stockholm suffered a wave of violent riots by mostly immigrant youths.

Swedish cops, and Swedish women are all lying. It's one giant racist conspiracy to fake no go zones. LOL. Sorry I'm not buying that one.

Pigg said
No way I'm reading all of this.  

Don't. He's rehashing the same losing argument with the same shit sources because he argues in bad faith as I said. Not going to make this a Christmas tradition to point out to him the same shit over and over to get a wall of nonsense to try to justify his shit view.

The sad part is if you actually go through the pages upon pages of "evidence" he's literally just recycling the same shit sources over and over like it's something new. It quite literally is spam.

Imagine being this upset about losing an argument a whole ass year later.

how old was Mohamed's wife Aicha??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9AWRdSQeOE 

King Lucem Ferre said
LOL I actually did address what is enlarged. You tried to pull this stunt last time. Bad faith arguer will bad faith argue.

It went like this.

"Those stats don't say Muslim, they say migrant."

"WhO dO yOu ThInK aRe ImMiGrAnTs? ItS mUsLiMs!"

(That's jumping to a conclusion.)

No that's reading what's right in front of you. First link again out of the contentious four that you presented.

Foreigners overrepresented

Since 2000, there has only been one research report on immigrant crime. It was done in 2006 by Ann-Christine Hjelm from Karlstads University.

It emerged that in 2002, 85% of those sentenced to at least two years in prison for rape in Svea Hovrätt, a court of appeals, were foreign born or second-generation immigrants.

A 1996 report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention reached the conclusion that immigrants from North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia) were 23 times as likely to commit rape as Swedish men. The figures for men from Iraq, Bulgaria and Romania were, respectively, 20, 18 and 18. Men from the rest of Africa were 16 times more prone to commit rape; and men from Iran, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia, 10 times as prone as Swedish men.

That's a lot of places that don't have women's rights like we do in the liberal west. And yes some of them are majority Muslim countries. Stop plugging your ears and going "lalalalala." And then show me ANY Muslim country that has as much women's rights as we do in the west. Trick question. You can't. It doesn't exist. Because of religion and theocracy. Something you admitted to me previously was a problem. So why are you getting quiet now?

Next:

The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.

Which you just dismissed.

And this is what YOU DISMISSED AND IGNORED FROM THE SAME LINK!

In Oslo all sexual assaults (i.e assault rape committed under violence) involving rape in the past year has been committed by males of non-western background. This was the conclusion of a police report published today. This means that in every single rape assault in the last five years, where the rapist could be identified, he was a man of foreign origin.

The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city – May 2011 report) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while 38.2 were Norweigan citizens (foreign and national), 2.3% American, and 13.7% other European (foreign and national Europeans).

In other words, YOUR SOURCE DIDN'T CONTEST THESE STATS. It tried to come up with some stupid politically correct mitigating statement. Let's examine it:

The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”.

Foreigners, mainly Muslims, are misbehaving disproportionately. But don't talk about it. And if you do, blame poverty. Even though rich white people commit rape and other poor whites and poor browns don't. So what's the fucking Muslims' excuse? LOL.

How can they be in poverty when they live in apartments and get schooling and tax benefits that drain the government coffers? You liberals talk out of both sides of your mouth. You cheer when the government gives them hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then you claim they're in poverty after they got this money. You can't keep your story straight.

King Lucem Ferre said
Oslo is one city. You’re cherry picking the one city from 2010 which means it’s also irrelevant.

Now you're moving the goal posts. Previously NO CITY had disproportionate Muslim crime. Now you're making small admissions when I force you to with all the big and bold text I'm bringing back. Secondly, I'm sure it wasn't irrelevant in 2010. Just ask the rape victims!

It also doesn’t specify “muslim”….

It does say FOREIGN BORN and then it lists places of origin:
"The report shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin"
Now all we have to do is check the statistics of how many immigrants came from what places. GIVEN THE WARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, it's pretty obvious where most of it's coming from. However, Islam does reign in Africa as well. And if you'll recall, when the Brits were covering up the Muslim grooming gangs, they didn't say Muslim or middle eastern. They said ASIAN. Now that was pretty racist to throw Chinese and Japanese under the bus.

Foreigners, mainly Muslims, are misbehaving disproportionately.

To no real significance.

Why don't we just ask the Swedes and the Norwegians about that? LOL. No other group of migrants has a tendency to create no go zones.

How can they be in poverty when they live in apartments and get schooling and tax benefits that drain the government coffers?

There is a lot to really break down on this but I assure you, being as my mom works at a refugee center, that they don’t get luxurious hand outs. Can’t speak for other countries.

That's exactly what you're trying to do by denying no go zones and ignoring disproportionate Muslim crime stats.

You think they just hand them money?

Yep. They suck up welfare a lot of times.

40% of all Welfare Claimants in Germany are Nonwhite Invader “Refugees”
TNO Staff — September 22, 2019
http://newobserveronline.com/4.....-refugees/
https://www.welt.de/politik/article200708580/Migration-Drei-von-vier-Syrern-erhalten-Hartz-IV.html

Leak: 81 Percent of Migrants to Germany Are Unskilled, Government Predicts 400,000 New Welfare Claimants
28 Oct 2015
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2015/10/28/leak-81-per-cent-migrants-germany-unskilled-government-predicts-400000-new-welfare-claimants/

350,000 Migrants to Receive Unemployment Benefits as Costs Soar
2 Feb 2016
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2016/02/02/350000-migrants-to-receive-unemployment-benefits-as-costs-soar/